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I see my fellow Philadelphian cheerleaders still like to distort the truth a little to prop up Philly over The Burgh.
From someone who's lived a significant amount of time in Both cities here's how it truly breaks down...even tho the Philly Cheerleaders will beg to differ...
Even though both cities are in PA, neither one overshadows the other even with Philly being twice the size of the Burgh...Phillys influential reach stops at Harrisburg damn near immediately as a matter of fact you could say the influence on Harrisburg is down the middle part is Pittsburgh part is Philly.....
Pittsburgh is still the capital city of its region and hold alot of influence over a large swath of PA from all of WPA, NW, and even push into the North Central PA toward Scranton...
Philadelphia owns SEPA but push north past Reading and Allentown, Philly starts to lose out to NYC influence. NYC and DC's mega influences are a big part of Philly's problem as being seen as a "Capital City" of a Region...Hell a growing amount of people in Bucks county (Philly metro, neighboring county) commute to NYC as opposed to Philly.
Pittsburgh's weekend destination cities are DC and NYC largely...No one from The Burgh looks at Philly as a destination city mainly because there's very little you can get in Philly that you can't get in the Burgh, as others have stated from Pittsburgh you dont even need to go through Philly to get to DC or NYC you can bypass it easily.
While the Steelers are easily the 2nd team of Philadelphia...There are no second teams of Pittsburgh its all Steelers Pens Pirates or its nothing....The Burgh with no NBA team goes strong for NCAA Pitt rather than for any team in the NBA..
Here a good cenus map to go by of Sports teams influences:
Both the Steelers and Pens have larger influences over PA than the Eagles or Flyers
The Poor Pityful Pirates almost splits the state evenly with the elite championship Phillies
The Burgh doesn't overwhelmingly root for any NBA team, but the Cavs seem to be the top I would have to guess that's only because Cleveland is closer and had Labron fame.
Philadelphia has a little bit more acknowledgement that Pittsburgh is in PA than Pittsburgh does of Philly...Pittsburgh is almost oblivious to anything east of Harrisburg is still PA, they equate Philly to going out of state..
Neither City gets more from the State than the other...Like how NYC sucks the life out of the rest of NYS....Both Cities get the same treatment, but Pittsburgh seems to get everything first then Philly (Stadiums, Casinos, Arenas)...and neither City can out influence Rural PA in the Legislator even when both cities have the same common goal and ban together Rural PA still reigns in State Politics.
So no Outside of Pens/Flyers The Burgh and Philly there is no rivalry...Both Cities are just doing their own things PA is large enough to allow for it.
Last edited by Blackbeauty212; 02-16-2011 at 07:03 AM..
I see my fellow Philadelphian cheerleaders still like to distort the truth a little to prop up Philly over The Burgh...
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I don't disagree with what you said, except for two things.
1) Philly is actually almost 5 times as large as Pittsburgh, when talking about the city proper.
2) Having grown up north of Reading, but still in Berks County (after actually moving from New York City), there really isn't any New York City influence there. I didn't know anyone from New York, and I rarely saw people with New York sports shirts. And I'm thinking many of those I did see may have simply been poseurs. People visit Philadelphia all of the time, people love the Eagles, and lots of people (like myself) wind up moving to Philadelphia. Because Reading is a pretty bleak place at the present time. They even served Philly Cheesesteaks for lunch in my school cafeterias. But you're probably right about the Lehigh Valley being influenced by New York City more than Philadelphia. But as far as Reading goes, I lived pretty much right on the border of Schuylkill County, in between Pottsville and Reading, and the influence of anywhere I normally went was still heavily Philadelphia.
Even though both cities are in PA, neither one overshadows the other even with Philly being twice the size of the Burgh...Phillys influential reach stops at Harrisburg damn near immediately as a matter of fact you could say the influence on Harrisburg is down the middle part is Pittsburgh part is Philly.....
The population matters more than the area. If everything south/east of Blue Mountain is Philadelphia territory, well then that's about 7,000,000 people, which is over half the state's population. More people live in southeastern Pennsylvania than the rest of the state combined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212
Pittsburgh is still the capital city of its region and hold alot of influence over a large swath of PA from all of WPA, NW, and even push into the North Central PA toward Scranton...
I'll give you western and north-central Pennsylvania, as well as south-central Pennsylvania west of Blue Mountain, but you're getting too ambitious with northeastern Pennsylvania, which is increasingly New York territory since New York is the closest major metropolitan area. Even then, Pittsburgh's territory contains maybe 4,000,000 people in spite of all that area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212
Philadelphia owns SEPA but push north past Reading and Allentown, Philly starts to lose out to NYC influence. NYC and DC's mega influences are a big part of Philly's problem as being seen as a "Capital City" of a Region...Hell a growing amount of people in Bucks county (Philly metro, neighboring county) commute to NYC as opposed to Philly.
Like I said, northeastern Pennsylvania is closer to New York than Philadelphia, so it'd only make sense for New York to have more influence. As for Washington DC, maybe Franklin and Adams Counties in south-central Pennsylvania, but that's about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212
Pittsburgh's weekend destination cities are DC and NYC largely...No one from The Burgh looks at Philly as a destination city mainly because there's very little you can get in Philly that you can't get in the Burgh, as others have stated from Pittsburgh you dont even need to go through Philly to get to DC or NYC you can bypass it easily.
Among the huge East Coast cities, Pittsburgh is most strongly influenced by Washington DC, and then Philadelphia, and then New York. Like most other influences, distance probably has a lot to do with it, since Washington DC is the closest of those cities to Pittsburgh. And if you think that Philadelphia has nothing to offer somebody from Pittsburgh, then make sure never to shop in King of Prussia, eat a cheeseteak (or at Le Bec Fin, for that matter), or take a historical tour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212
While the Steelers are easily the 2nd team of Philadelphia...There are no second teams of Pittsburgh its all Steelers Pens Pirates or its nothing....The Burgh with no NBA team goes strong for NCAA Pitt rather than for any team in the NBA.
If Pittsburgh doesn't have a "second" team, then that's testament to how few people have moved to Pittsburgh from elsewhere. That's not necessarily a good thing. I wouldn't mind seeing a New York-, Chicago- or Philadelphia-oriented sports bar open in Pittsburgh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212
Philadelphia has a little bit more acknowledgement that Pittsburgh is in PA than Pittsburgh does of Philly...Pittsburgh is almost oblivious to anything east of Harrisburg is still PA, they equate Philly to going out of state.
And that's a problem considering Pennsylvania's population center has moved nowhere but east, and, like I said, there are more people in southeastern Pennsylvania than the rest of the state combined. And I find it funny that you're quick to pick up Philadelphia when somebody claims that Pittsburgh is a "Midwestern" city (and it's not, despite what many on the East Coast might think), yet you turn around and throw Philadelphia under the bus when talking about social and cultural influences within the Northeast. You can't have it both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212
Neither City gets more from the State than the other...Like how NYC sucks the life out of the rest of NYS....Both Cities get the same treatment, but Pittsburgh seems to get everything first then Philly (Stadiums, Casinos, Arenas)...and neither City can out influence Rural PA in the Legislator even when both cities have the same common goal and ban together Rural PA still reigns in State Politics.
Philadelphia got a new arena back in the 1990's. Furthermore, if stuff gets done faster in Pittsburgh, then it might simply be because the backward-ass rural politicians hate Pittsburgh slightly less than they hate Philadelphia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212
So no Outside of Pens/Flyers The Burgh and Philly there is no rivalry...Both Cities are just doing their own things PA is large enough to allow for it.
The Pittsburgh/Philadelphia dynamic reminds me of the Kansas City/St. Louis dynamic in Missouri: they mostly ignore each other, but then when they cross paths, they remember that they're in the same state as each other, and the natural impulse is to throw down. And I imagine that interactions between the two cities at the University of Missouri are similar to those at Penn State.
I'm a little late to this thread, but I grew up closer to Pittsburgh, have lived in a number of places, and have lived in the Philly area for the last 7 years.
I don't really think in the sporting world, there is much of a rivalry. They are different conferences in the NFL, Pittsburgh doesn't have the NBA, and the Pirates and Phillies are in different divisions.....and the Pirates stink. The NHL is the only thing that might lend itself to a rivalry, they are in the same conference and division, but it doesn't really seem to happen as strongly as others.
The population matters more than the area. If everything south/east of Blue Mountain is Philadelphia territory, well then that's about 7,000,000 people, which is over half the state's population. More people live in southeastern Pennsylvania than the rest of the state combined.
That has nothing to do with Philadelphia really, and everything to do with being in the Bos-Wash megaoplis...Pittsburgh doesnt have that benefit, as a matter of fact being in the Bos-Wash Corridor is what gives Philadelphia its sole advantage (IMO) over Pittsburgh
Everything south isn't Philadelphia, a large part also lends itself to Baltimore DC metro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella
I'll give you western and north-central Pennsylvania, as well as south-central Pennsylvania west of Blue Mountain, but you're getting too ambitious with northeastern Pennsylvania, which is increasingly New York territory since New York is the closest major metropolitan area. Even then, Pittsburgh's territory contains maybe 4,000,000 people in spite of all that area..
I never said Northeastern PA...I said pushing towards Scranton...I meant more so to show directional...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella
Like I said, northeastern Pennsylvania is closer to New York than Philadelphia, so it'd only make sense for New York to have more influence. As for Washington DC, maybe Franklin and Adams Counties in south-central Pennsylvania, but that's about it.
But I was showing how NYC's influence is also starting to push into what is considered Philadelphia influences...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella
Among the huge East Coast cities, Pittsburgh is most strongly influenced by Washington DC, and then Philadelphia, and then New York. Like most other influences, distance probably has a lot to do with it, since Washington DC is the closest of those cities to Pittsburgh. And if you think that Philadelphia has nothing to offer somebody from Pittsburgh, then make sure never to shop in King of Prussia, eat a cheeseteak (or at Le Bec Fin, for that matter), or take a historical tour.
Philadelphia may have a higher influence than NYC, but as Destination cities...Pittsburgh goes to NYC and DC not Philadelphia...
Cheesesteak, well that can be said for any city vs Philadelphia..but believe it or not Pittsburgh has a couple of spots that make a pretty good cheesesteak because the owners are from Philly...Now can I get a decent Pittsburgh Fish Sandwich in Philly?
KOP please.....Ross Park Mall offers damn near everything you'd find at KOP.
History, well not every city can be the birth place of America, not can it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella
If Pittsburgh doesn't have a "second" team, then that's testament to how few people have moved to Pittsburgh from elsewhere. That's not necessarily a good thing. I wouldn't mind seeing a New York-, Chicago- or Philadelphia-oriented sports bar open in Pittsburgh.
No that means the home teams are such an institution and beloved that no outside team stands a chance of becoming popular, plus come on the Steelers and Pens are amongst the largest fan bases in the US in their respective leagues....
I guess going by your analogy...not alot of people move to NYC either since no MLB team outside of the Yanks and Mets can get a breath in there...or Boston with the Redsox and Celtics...that a bad analogy Gnutella.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella
And that's a problem considering Pennsylvania's population center has moved nowhere but east, and, like I said, there are more people in southeastern Pennsylvania than the rest of the state combined. And I find it funny that you're quick to pick up Philadelphia when somebody claims that Pittsburgh is a "Midwestern" city (and it's not, despite what many on the East Coast might think), yet you turn around and throw Philadelphia under the bus when talking about social and cultural influences within the Northeast. You can't have it both ways.
I have always said Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are more alike than they are different always..from the Culture to the Housing Stock, to the ebbs and flows...Damn sure Pittsburgh is more like Philadelphia than it is Cleveland or Chicago.
Philadelphia's the bigger city and metro, what do you want me to say!....that doesnt mean it overshawdows the entire state of PA...and you seem to be like the rest Because Philadelphia has the larger population it somehow overshadows the Burgh...It does not PA is large enough that neither city is threatened by the other....
Your always defending Pittsburgh against misconceptions, except when thrown up against Philadelphia for some reason, but then all those misconceptions become fact to you for some reason. You can't have it Both ways either!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella
Philadelphia got a new arena back in the 1990's. Furthermore, if stuff gets done faster in Pittsburgh, then it might simply be because the backward-ass rural politicians hate Pittsburgh slightly less than they hate Philadelphia.
Whatever - the Big Cities of PA are Hated equally from what I can see vs the Rural PA...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella
The Pittsburgh/Philadelphia dynamic reminds me of the Kansas City/St. Louis dynamic in Missouri: they mostly ignore each other, but then when they cross paths, they remember that they're in the same state as each other, and the natural impulse is to throw down. And I imagine that interactions between the two cities at the University of Missouri are similar to those at Penn State.
The same as the Big Cities of California, Florida, Texas....The states are large enough that the each big city has its influential sphere and not threaten by another city in the state.
T
The same as the Big Cities of California, Florida, Texas....The states are large enough that the each big city has its influential sphere and not threaten by another city in the state.
In ll honesty I dont really think there is much of rivalry either way, mostly at this point if anything as a city I cheer and wish good things for pittsburgh
In ll honesty I dont really think there is much of rivalry either way, mostly at this point if anything as a city I cheer and wish good things for pittsburgh
There is none....I actually wish Philly and Pittsburgh would grow enough to take over the political influence of PA politics....Rural PA holds both cities back significantly that I think we can all agree on...
Say what you will about fast Eddy...He was the most Pro City governor the state has ever seen....
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