Development and growth outside Center City (Philadelphia, Washington: homes, neighborhood, organic)

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by rotodome

One thing I find very striking about that map is how nearly all of the areas adjacent to the main parts of the park system are blue - with declining population.

As much as Philly likes to pride itself on having a large municipal park system, the truth is that much of it is terribly inaccessible, ignored, and doesn't benefit the city nearly as much as it should.

For example, there's a large unused reservoir in Fairmount park (because the city used to have a much larger population, and once needed it) that could easily be landscaped and made into an urban lake, like the Prospect Park lake in Brooklyn, or the Central Park reservoir (just off the top of my head). It could be a great place to run, bike, fish, and be a home for wildlife. And it would have incredible views. With all that park space, Philly should have a lake. It could be a truly great urban space. Something that Philly desperately needs in the middle of the city, which would really activate the park and make it an asset to people who lived near it. Instead, that whole section is fenced off with barbed wire, you basically need to drive down a limited access road to get there, the adjacent neighborhood is not any more desirable of a place to live, and the city at large is seeing minimal benefit from it, if any.

I know the given reason for the barbed wire is "protecting the water supply", but I don't buy it. There's a better way to use that space. Other cities do it. And that part of the reservoir system is not in use anyway.

And another thing: until recently, most of the work done to "improve" the upper Schuylkill was to widen Kelly drive just to make it easier to drive past the park (when there's already West River Drive and the Schuylkill expressway that go to basically the same places), and harder for pedestrians to cross. Since that area behind the Art museum is so nice, couldn't it have been better to narrow that roadway, make it one way, or even just close Kelly Drive to auto traffic? Make it less of a bike/jogging path squeezed between the river and a busy dangerous road, and more of a recreational promenade and gateway to Fairmount Park, better connecting Fairmount Park to it's riverbank, instead of just further cutting it off, which is the problem now. Sure, it's a nice jogging path now - but it could and should be so much more.

I know I'm just dreaming here, but there are so many lost opportunities with the park. And that map shows the result. Philly can definitely do better.

It's not all bad - the Wissahickon is of course beautiful, and parts of Fairmount park are very scenic. But I think that Philly really needs to try to better capitalize on what should be one of it's greatest assets in that large amount of green space.

very well said. you have me dreaming about such possibilities. i hated the widening of kelly drive. i mean there is so much great park land north of the art museum and beneath girard, and yet this area is cut off from the water front by basically what amounts to be a highway. it is a crime against common sense. Kelly drive should absolutely be shut down to cars. if you can't figure out a way to make do without it you're just not trying.

[rotodome]

I just re-read this, and I hope no one takes my posting on this thread as just some critique of the park system.

It was just something that got me thinking about a golden opportunity to spur future development in the city. Fairmount Park could be a jewel in the whole region, not just in the city, and could be something that people would really want to live close to (as apparently they do not at present).

I hope that maybe a neighborhood like Parkside or Strawberry Mansion could experience a rebirth the way that Park Slope did, here in Brooklyn, over the past 30 years. Going from a troubled neighborhood that was down in the dumps, to a neighborhood that gets ranked as the best neighborhood in NYC and one of the best neighborhoods in the country. And a big part of that is due to being adjacent to a really great park.

Parkside and Strawberry Mansion already have a wealth of great Victorian architecture, similar to what Park Slope had. Maybe if Drexel succeeds with it's plan to improve Mantua along the lines of what Penn has done in Spruce Hill, then maybe that could start to spark interest in Parkside. And if Brewerytown is successful, then that could start to spread to Strawberry Mansion. But the park itself will need attention and investment.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

great map

one question though, on the map it lists the part of the city that is above point breeze and beneath center city west as s.w. center city. I've always called that area Graduate Hospital, none the less it is not one of the selectable neighborhoods under either map. do you know what up with that.


.

It is there actually, took me a while to find, is abbreviated and out of order - population was about 7,700 for that little sliver

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Just re-read this and I hope no one takes my posting on this thread as just some critique of the park system.

It was just something that got me thinking about a golden opportunity to spur future development in the city. Fairmount Park could be a jewel in the whole region, not just in the city, and could be something that people would really want to live close to (as apparently they do not at present).

I hope that maybe a neighborhood like Parkside or Strawberry Mansion could experience a rebirth the way that Park Slope did, here in Brooklyn, over the past 30 years. Going from a troubled neighborhood that was down in the dumps, to a neighborhood that gets ranked as the best neighborhood in NYC and one of the best neighborhoods in the country. And a big part of that is due to being adjacent to a really great park.

Parkside and Strawberry Mansion already have a wealth of great Victorian architecture, similar to what Park Slope had. Maybe if Drexel succeeds with it's plan to improve Mantua along the lines of what Penn has done in Spruce Hill, then maybe that could start to spark interest in Parkside. And if Brewerytown is successful, then that could start to spread to Strawberry Mansion. But the park itself will need attention and investment.

Seems to me it's OK to acknowledge something can be improved here without being called a hater. One of the few amenities missing from Philly when we were looking around for a city was large park easily accessible to its residents in the core (a al Central or Golden Gate Parks). Instead, we have to console ourselves with places such at Rittenhouse Square and Washington Square (not too shabby, huh?). Still, a guy needs a place to roam.

Given that Fairmont is where it is and that can't be changed, it does strike me that work can be done to make it more inviting than it is now. It just seems like a park that is lovely to look at. On one of our few forays out there, I never got the sense that there was a central place which would draw a concentration of people to "recreate." I realize this may be that the park is so large that I haven’t stumbled upon it yet. I do feel you are onto something here with your observation that the neighborhoods adjacent to the park heavily represent those in decline. In most cites, logic tells me those would be the most choice place to live in. Improving the park sounds like it offers a lot of wins.

What I have stumbled upon and enjoyed is the stroll along the Schuylkill from Filter Sure past the museum. Years ago, that river seemed forgotten. I'm glad the city has chosen to focus west since we really lost our opportunity looking east to the Delaware with 95 construction, IMO. I think the Schuylkill path can only get better as it extends south.

[rotodome]

Link to info on Drexel's plans to invest in Powelton & Mantua:

Fry unveils neighborhood strategy for Drexel | Philadelphia : The Next Great City

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Link to info on Drexel's plans to invest in Powelton & Mantua:

Fry unveils neighborhood strategy for Drexel | Philadelphia : The Next Great City

i'm telling you that is def going to be the next neighborhood to really boom like northern liberties did.

it's unreal how different it is there. My grandparents used to live in mantua and that place was a disaster area 15 years ago. all the corner stores were vacant and closed. no businesses. awful crime.

i was there recently and it's unreal how different it is. i mean unreal.

drexel has basically extended itself up to spring garden from the river to about 36th street. and then below baring basically all the way til like 40th or maybe even further. and even the areas that don't have a huge college population further north where my grandparents used to live all the corner stores have a business in them now, some of them are restaurants, i saw a coffee shop in one of them. and powelton village... those houses have always just been beautiful but now that the crime is down you can really recognize how beautiful that neighborhood is. i mean it was basically the original rich people suburbs, that got swallowed up into the city. very urban, but trees everyone.

with drexel and university city to the south, and the philadlephia zoo and fairmount park west on the north i see unlimited potential here.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

i'm telling you that is def going to be the next neighborhood to really boom like northern liberties did.

it's unreal how different it is there. My grandparents used to live in mantua and that place was a disaster area 15 years ago. all the corner stores were vacant and closed. no businesses. awful crime.

i was there recently and it's unreal how different it is. i mean unreal.

drexel has basically extended itself up to spring garden from the river to about 36th street. and then below baring basically all the way til like 40th or maybe even further. and even the areas that don't have a huge college population further north where my grandparents used to live all the corner stores have a business in them now, some of them are restaurants, i saw a coffee shop in one of them. and powelton village... those houses have always just been beautiful but now that the crime is down you can really recognize how beautiful that neighborhood is. i mean it was basically the original rich people suburbs, that got swallowed up into the city. very urban, but trees everyone.

with drexel and university city to the south, and the philadlephia zoo and fairmount park west on the north i see unlimited potential here.

Well this a neighborhood that has the potential to connect to Fairmont Park as was discussed earlier. There is great old houses in this rea and myabe somehow so redevelopment along the Park itself and developing some type of draw to the park; a place that draws people in could somehow establish this and start to make better use of park.

[kidphilly]

I wonder if there is any way to take advantage of the existing rail lines that flow through this neighborhood to offer better rail transit

http://www.archives.upenn.edu/histy/...a_neighbor.jpg

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...305.33,,0,3.15

[rotodome]

I hope that Fry guides Drexel to follow Penn's model in collaborating with the Public School system on a neighborhood K-8 school (Powel is already a decent school, but only K-4). A great neighborhood school goes a long way towards a solid neighborhood with invested residents and stable property values.

[killakoolaide]

IMO, the city should continue its focus on CC, because the spillover growth is the healthiest and most sustainable, It's a more gradual process, but it works. Throwing money into hoods that aren't ready for it yet will just be a waste, it has been proven time and again in Philly and elsewhere. Focus on the core, and let the growth spread organically outward. Naturally as the core grows and improves, the decline gets pushed further outward, and is now on the outskirts of the city and in the inner-suburbs, Germantown is the new North Philly.