Philadelphia 2035 (York, Rochester, Denver: appliances, concert, Starbucks)
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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
Reputation: 10256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine
The nearly obsessive dislike of Philly rowhomes is a tired trope that has carried this poster through several usernames across countless threads. The first three words of this latest post pretty much says it all: ”I can’t resist ...”.
He did an equally nonsensical post concerning Wegmans on the Raleigh board.
I came to Philadelphia for college and stayed put, even though my job field makes it very easy to go literally anywhere else in the world. I wanted a big city with a truly urban experience. New York checked off everything I wanted, but the price to have that was so incredibly steep it ruined it. Philadelphia had almost everything New York had at a much more reasonable price point. While I may not plan to stay put in Philadelphia for much longer, I am very glad I chose to stay after undergrad and gain the experience I did.
Penn (and other top school) students generally have more options to go to prestige cities like New York and DC and San Francisco. These cities all have one or more niche job markets that draw their workers almost entirely from top level schools (finance, government, tech, etc). Philadelphia doesn't have a niche quite like that yet, but I have a feeling it could begin to build one and start retaining more top level graduates.
Also remember too, far fewer Penn students are actually from the area when compared to a place like St. Joe's or Temple. If you're from the area originally, you're going to be much more likely to stick around after graduation regardless of field.
Also remember too, far fewer Penn students are actually from the area when compared to a place like St. Joe's or Temple. If you're from the area originally, you're going to be much more likely to stick around after graduation regardless of field.
Very good point. I think the fact that Philly retains a even a quarter of grads from a globally-renown school is a huge feather in its cap.
I also think that linked study demonstrates that the Philly area is very clearly a major brain "magnet," now more than ever. It's eighth in the US for being a top grad destination for at least 104 of the nearly 500 institutions tracked. On par with Atlanta and well ahead of other trendy/rising metros like Denver, Dallas and Seattle. That's nothing to sneeze at.
Philly will never have the exact same draws of the financial (New York), political (DC) and tech (SF/Silicon Valley) capitals of the US. But the silver lining is that its proximity to two of those cities is a actually is becoming more of an asset than ever before. The increasing synergy of the Northeast Corridor links Philly to their deep talent pools and formidable economies.
Especially as remote work arrangements become more common, it's very easy to envision an employee taking residence in Philly while perhaps making weekly trips to their DC or NYC-based offices. It's really an idea that can take off and be a boon to Philly, especially as housing in both the DC and NYC-areas has become stratospheric in price.
Rehabbing can be as cost-effective as new construction.
And if you look at most of the new construction going up in any Philadelphia neighborhood these days, I think that after you've seen a few of them, you'll be jonesing for a nice rehab (which that old garage was).
BTW, $434k for a Mag Mile condo kinda surprised me too. Guess Chicago remains pretty affordable.
OTOH, the rot in Springfield is spreading so rapidly that it's beginning to affect Chicago too. (Not that they're squeaky clean in Harrisburg or Philadelphia either, but somehow we've managed to avoid the mess Illinois has gotten itself into.)
You are a AWESOME CIVIL AND GREAT WRITER.... I look forward to reading as your post in a variety of threads. You understood that the PRICE floored me for the block as I viewed it on street-view.
I've noted in past post too ... some new infill I liked more then others. But I personally, just did not see saving a non-architecturally nice Philly row with character .... over that money for a NEW one. Possibly with a garage under it too.
The buildings to the tight of this Brewerytown rehab are true Philly common row-homes. To the left is one story garages or whatever..... Clearly as gentrification spreads. These smaller garages will probably be replaced with new 3-sory infill. The tows probable gutted and rehabbed too. Once new infill is butted up to this rehab..... its roof-deck view will be cut too.
I'd say what's to the left of the garage rehab.... will be eventually NEW INFILL.
As I noted I check out -Curbed Chicago regularly and did -Curbed Philly that day. The Chicago Curbed link highlighted the off N Michigan Ave Condo with views .... for a similar price I saw this Philly, Brewerytown Total interior rehab for the same price. But the block just did not have anything IMO to warrant that FLIP for a nice profit IMO.
Like I noted .... I was STUNNED. I surely.understand Gentrification and areas in the process. But that price vs the block yet......
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
He did an equally nonsensical post concerning Wegmans on the Raleigh board.
This was my post in on Wegman's coming to Raleigh as they spread south. I gave the Philly, NYC and Boston REGION mention for having Wegman's. You felt I should be called out ... to infer Philly the city has a Wegman's . I replied I clearly (I thought) said REGION.
Honestly.... Wegman's goes to affluent areas. Why they chose King of Prussia to build. Why you felt even Philly should not get credit in the least.... I do not know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa
I work for Wegman's and any city should feel special to bag them. They are very selective and the TOP Grocer in Customer satisfaction and the second best Fortune 500 company to work for. I see no comparison to Aldi's. I do like Trader Joes in more Urban areas too. Wegman's has stores in the Boston, Philly and NYC region and usually affluent areas. I see no problem with them speeding more South too.
Correction- Meant spreading ^^^
Your reply...
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
Dave, you know what Amorosos is. I cited that Aldi is selling one of their products in the Piedmont of NC but not in Upstate SC. That was an example of a chain marketing to the customers, not a comparison of Aldi to Wegmans. Wegmans is building a store in Raleigh & you know darned well that they are not within the city limits of Philadelphia.
As I knew .... not in Philly proper, but did say REGION and KOP is not far. ...
Honestly, seems I'm getting these personal attacks. As the only reason to mention this post I STILL STAND BY. Wegman's and Audi's .... sorry not comparable chains. Trader Joes's as I noted ... would be a great addition to CC. They are a awesome urban chain. Hope Philly gets some.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01
I read that 60% of the housing in the city is row houses. More here than anywhere in the country.
Historically they are directly associated with all of the factories that were in the city since they housed many of the factory workers in individual homes. Very different concept than NY tenements.
Very true... Philly clearly chose not to be a city of tenements. The idea was as you know .... all could own a Philly row-home in all price ranges and clearly .... the common row-home became a Philly staple for all mill workers if the era.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01
Yes, agreed, the power lines are ugly...but, tbh, you never seem to get that lots of Philadelphians do not care about "green frontage" because it means wasting time caring for it. I grew up doing lawn care...what a freaking chore and effing waste of time. One of the joys of city living for me is never having to deal with grass, cutting it or anything else with it. Yah. It all feeds my general, sometime irrational, loathing of suburban lifestyles.
Fairmount Park is right next to Brewerytown as you probably know. So that solves any need for green anyone should need.
I like that it's not obvious that great layout is behind a " garage" door. Hidden treasures! A property like that would be over a million $ in NYC so yes it's a bargain. If you ever go on public house tours in Philly you will discover properties that are like this one, very understated outside but amazing on the inside.
Well, you said it not me ..... that Philadelphians do not want more green (as in some frontage) in front of their homes to upkeep. Well some do if they put planters out front I'm sure. You see a decent amount of that. A couple feet of frontage .... is not a suburban lawn to cut .... but aesthetics added to the walkability is a plus o a urban lifestyle to me. I'm no fan of a lawn. But I still want some green. Makes urbanity more connected to reality too. I'd toke hghfse living with a NCR balcony and no lawn too. But I'd have plants to enjoy on my balcony too.
Having a widedish concrete sidewalk without even shade trees? Surely makes for a concrete jungle and sun making it OPPRESIVE in summers. Greens add aesthetics, class and value. . Why we LOVE the Colonial areas by CC and quaintness and shade. I understand .... still the city is planting more trees anyway.
But guess you are right ... It isn't true Philly-style to incorporate more green in city blocks. It's not a core value. So guess you are right. My green make-overs .... just fagetaboutit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine
The nearly obsessive dislike of Philly rowhomes is a tired trope that has carried this poster through several usernames across countless threads. The first three words of this latest post pretty much says it all: ”I can’t resist ...”.
Honestly what the heck... just stop. For a transplant from Texas .... clearly you should realize .... they value green more and might not find tight solid blocks of rows as appealing.... especially outside of your CC region of quaint more Colonial stock. As I'd think you'd clearly should understand. I don't hate all rows. We all have preferred types though. MarketStEl can understand..... being from Missouri. Some value green more and not use to tight rows might not love them all.
"I can't resist" meant..... taking the risk of HEAT of some labeling posters lashing out. But the price and block just got me to risk the heat of people who may have much mere wealth and education than me .... but this attack does not show that as MarketStEl clearly has no thin-skin. Always civil.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa
You are a AWESOME CIVIL AND GREAT WRITER.... I look forward to reading as your post in a variety of threads. You understood that the PRICE floored me for the block as I viewed it on street-view.
I've noted in past post too ... some new infill I liked more then others. But I personally, just did not see saving a non-architecturally nice Philly row with character .... over that money for a NEW one. Possibly with a garage under it too.
The buildings to the tight of this Brewerytown rehab are true Philly common row-homes. To the left is one story garages or whatever..... Clearly as gentrification spreads. These smaller garages will probably be replaced with new 3-sory infill. The tows probable gutted and rehabbed too. Once new infill is butted up to this rehab..... its roof-deck view will be cut too.
I'd say what's to the left of the garage rehab.... will be eventually NEW INFILL.
As I noted I check out -Curbed Chicago regularly and did -Curbed Philly that day. The Chicago Curbed link highlighted the off N Michigan Ave Condo with views .... for a similar price I saw this Philly, Brewerytown Total interior rehab for the same price. But the block just did not have anything IMO to warrant that FLIP for a nice profit IMO.
Like I noted .... I was STUNNED. I surely.understand Gentrification and areas in the process. But that price vs the block yet......
This was my post in on Wegman's coming to Raleigh as they spread south. I gave the Philly, NYC and Boston REGION mention for having Wegman's. You felt I should be called out ... to infer Philly the city has a Wegman's . I replied I clearly (I thought) said REGION.
Honestly.... Wegman's goes to affluent areas. Why they chose King of Prussia to build. Why you felt even Philly should not get credit in the least.... I do not know?
Correction- Meant spreading ^^^
Your reply...
As I knew .... not in Philly proper, but did say REGION and KOP is not far. ...
Honestly, seems I'm getting these personal attacks. As the only reason to mention this post I STILL STAND BY. Wegman's and Audi's .... sorry not comparable chains. Trader Joes's as I noted ... would be a great addition to CC. They are a awesome urban chain. Hope Philly gets some.
Very true... Philly clearly chose not to be a city of tenements. The idea was as you know .... all could own a Philly row-home in all price ranges and clearly .... the common row-home became a Philly staple for all mill workers if the era.
Well, you said it not me ..... that Philadelphians do not want more green (as in some frontage) in front of their homes to upkeep. Well some do if they put planters out front I'm sure. You see a decent amount of that. A couple feet of frontage .... is not a suburban lawn to cut .... but aesthetics added to the walkability is a plus o a urban lifestyle to me. I'm no fan of a lawn. But I still want some green. Makes urbanity more connected to reality too. I'd toke hghfse living with a NCR balcony and no lawn too. But I'd have plants to enjoy on my balcony too.
Having a widedish concrete sidewalk without even shade trees? Surely makes for a concrete jungle and sun making it OPPRESIVE in summers. Greens add aesthetics, class and value. . Why we LOVE the Colonial areas by CC and quaintness and shade. I understand .... still the city is planting more trees anyway.
But guess you are right ... It isn't true Philly-style to incorporate more green in city blocks. It's not a core value. So guess you are right. My green make-overs .... just fagetaboutit.
Honestly what the heck... just stop. For a transplant from Texas .... clearly you should realize .... they value green more and might not find tight solid blocks of rows as appealing.... especially outside of your CC region of quaint more Colonial stock. As I'd think you'd clearly should understand. I don't hate all rows. We all have preferred types though. MarketStEl can understand..... being from Missouri. Some value green more and not use to tight rows might not love them all.
"I can't resist" meant..... taking the risk of HEAT of some labeling posters lashing out. But the price and block just got me to risk the heat of people who may have much mere wealth and education than me .... but this attack does not show that as MarketStEl clearly has no thin-skin. Always civil.
- Colorful
- each house though originally a common same row .... now each a individual spin added.
- flowers show pride and value in foliage despite a narrow street.
- awnings still add diversity and additional color.
- painted brick makes each home truly a separate home.
- well kept multi-colored properties.
- You can say the white, green, the red home to a visitor.
I fully would say as appealing As a Colonial highly revered CC block. But much cheaper but not boring and still Quaint and clean. You know they have pride in their exteriors too. no need to hide a 6-digit rehab.
A word or two about supermarkets: No, Wegmans and Aldi aren't comparable. One is huge, has service counters, and has anything you might want in the way of food and then some. The other is compact, offers no service, and has a limited selection of products. But what Aldi does offer is high quality, a changing selection of merchandise including frequent special buys, and low, low prices. And they do all that very well. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that there are people who go to both.
Trader Joe's and Aldi are kissing cousins: they're owned by the two related Aldi companies based in Germany. (TJ's is owned by Aldi Nord. Aldi US is the American division of Aldi Süd.) Trader Joe's does what Aldi does, only with higher-end products. (And you might be surprised at some of the specialty items Aldi carries from time to time.) There is one TJ's in Center City. There seem to be no plans to open more stores soon. Aldi's German rival, Lidl, has one store in the Philly 'burbs and still plans to open more, though they've throttled back their expansion plans for a while.
Wegmans has yet to open a store in the central city of a metropolitan area it operates in - including its hometown of Rochester, NY, I believe but am not certain. They seem to have one model for their stores, one that doesn't play well with urban density.
Now, back to rowhouses.
We have an interesting phenomenon going on here: some neighborhoods are white-hot despite not being fully (re)built out because of their proximity to other desirable areas, while others with assets in better shape remain cheap, again because of their location (and reputation). That's why you get rehabbed garages on half-vacant blocks going for the same price as a Mag Mile condo. (But you should do a comparison based on price per square foot. That larger restored garage will have one that's significantly lower, I predict.)
I think I mentioned that 1908 lithograph I have on my living-room wall depicting "The Philadelphia of To-day" (actually, it was the Philadelphia of about a decade hence, for work on the Ben Franklin Parkway, visible in the lithograph, would not begin until 1917). The city's boosters took great pride in the high level of homeownership here, and those miles and miles of rowhouses were the reason it was so high. The years haven't been kind to some of them, but they remain a source of (potential) wealth for many who otherwise might not have any.
A word or two about supermarkets: No, Wegmans and Aldi aren't comparable. One is huge, has service counters, and has anything you might want in the way of food and then some. The other is compact, offers no service, and has a limited selection of products. But what Aldi does offer is high quality, a changing selection of merchandise including frequent special buys, and low, low prices. And they do all that very well. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that there are people who go to both.
Trader Joe's and Aldi are kissing cousins: they're owned by the two related Aldi companies based in Germany. (TJ's is owned by Aldi Nord. Aldi US is the American division of Aldi Süd.) Trader Joe's does what Aldi does, only with higher-end products. (And you might be surprised at some of the specialty items Aldi carries from time to time.) There is one TJ's in Center City. There seem to be no plans to open more stores soon. Aldi's German rival, Lidl, has one store in the Philly 'burbs and still plans to open more, though they've throttled back their expansion plans for a while.
Wegmans has yet to open a store in the central city of a metropolitan area it operates in - including its hometown of Rochester, NY, I believe but am not certain. They seem to have one model for their stores, one that doesn't play well with urban density.
Now, back to rowhouses.
We have an interesting phenomenon going on here: some neighborhoods are white-hot despite not being fully (re)built out because of their proximity to other desirable areas, while others with assets in better shape remain cheap, again because of their location (and reputation). That's why you get rehabbed garages on half-vacant blocks going for the same price as a Mag Mile condo. (But you should do a comparison based on price per square foot. That larger restored garage will have one that's significantly lower, I predict.)
I think I mentioned that 1908 lithograph I have on my living-room wall depicting "The Philadelphia of To-day" (actually, it was the Philadelphia of about a decade hence, for work on the Ben Franklin Parkway, visible in the lithograph, would not begin until 1917). The city's boosters took great pride in the high level of homeownership here, and those miles and miles of rowhouses were the reason it was so high. The years haven't been kind to some of them, but they remain a source of (potential) wealth for many who otherwise might not have any.
Yes, key words .... higher-end and service. I do know the history of row-housing in Philly.. why and the idea all could own a rowhome. We surely know how some are more architecturally desirable. There still is a reason Colonial areas have more universal appeal for being aesthetically pleasing with the location.
Just reading the link -The encyclopedia of the Philly row-home. Gives you insight in history and assemblyline construction of using the same bulk materials. Also the promotion of the motto ... All could own a Philly row-home as a model at the Chicago Colombian Exposition of the late 1800s.
William Penn's "Greene Country Towne" concept is another and why he wanted all to have a small garden and more green then his London neighborhood he grew up in. The Ben Franklin Parkway was a great addition I think. Penn would have approved of.
Repurposing old structures is found in all cities. Why old warehousing to lofts is popular in some. I surely have enjoyed quaint blocks strolling though in the CC area. Clearly there is a point for me where that quaintness and aesthetically pleasing aspect ..... might disappear for me in other areas even if gentrified. But I respect choices and why. Clearly differing cities developed differing concepts in housing for their masses and why it evolved as it did.
But I'm sure its time to get the thread back to a Philly of the future..... I'm sure this Brewerytown block will look different by 2035. Probably half of it new infill net to this garage rehab of basically a new home in the old brick frame. Probably will have trees too.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
Thanks for the compliment, DavePa.
A word or two about supermarkets: No, Wegmans and Aldi aren't comparable. One is huge, has service counters, and has anything you might want in the way of food and then some. The other is compact, offers no service, and has a limited selection of products. But what Aldi does offer is high quality, a changing selection of merchandise including frequent special buys, and low, low prices. And they do all that very well. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that there are people who go to both.
Trader Joe's and Aldi are kissing cousins: they're owned by the two related Aldi companies based in Germany. (TJ's is owned by Aldi Nord. Aldi US is the American division of Aldi Süd.) Trader Joe's does what Aldi does, only with higher-end products. (And you might be surprised at some of the specialty items Aldi carries from time to time.) There is one TJ's in Center City. There seem to be no plans to open more stores soon. Aldi's German rival, Lidl, has one store in the Philly 'burbs and still plans to open more, though they've throttled back their expansion plans for a while.
Wegmans has yet to open a store in the central city of a metropolitan area it operates in - including its hometown of Rochester, NY, I believe but am not certain. They seem to have one model for their stores, one that doesn't play well with urban density.
Now, back to rowhouses.
We have an interesting phenomenon going on here: some neighborhoods are white-hot despite not being fully (re)built out because of their proximity to other desirable areas, while others with assets in better shape remain cheap, again because of their location (and reputation). That's why you get rehabbed garages on half-vacant blocks going for the same price as a Mag Mile condo. (But you should do a comparison based on price per square foot. That larger restored garage will have one that's significantly lower, I predict.)
I think I mentioned that 1908 lithograph I have on my living-room wall depicting "The Philadelphia of To-day" (actually, it was the Philadelphia of about a decade hence, for work on the Ben Franklin Parkway, visible in the lithograph, would not begin until 1917). The city's boosters took great pride in the high level of homeownership here, and those miles and miles of rowhouses were the reason it was so high. The years haven't been kind to some of them, but they remain a source of (potential) wealth for many who otherwise might not have any.
In the referenced thread, I was addressing speculation that Wegmans may be headed for Florida. My point was that the urban centers of NC have individuals who fit well with Wegmans mix of readymade foods & their groceries. SC & GA have fewer. From Richmond south is a stretch for service from the Pennsylvania distribution center. This has been discussed on grocery/grocery-related threads on the NC boards & the general consensus is that a 2nd distribution center is needed, which would then leave room for expansion in New England & the Philadelphia market, while also moving south.
As an example of differences in the Carolinas, I pointed out that Aldi is selling packages of Amoroso rolls in the Piedmont of North Carolina but not in their stores in the adjacent area of Upstate South Carolina. Everyone involved in that discussion understood, but Dave accused me of comparing Aldi to Wegmans. Apparently, he still thinks that that's what I was doing since he brought it here. The discussion in that thread was about a store which will be the first in North Carolina that will be located in the city of Raleigh. Apparently, he missed that as he dragged in stores in the suburbs in the Philadelphia market, as he did here. Cities in North Carolina aren't as dense as Philadelphia, but density is increasing with old mills being converted to housing & rowhouses/townhouses increasing.
If they build in North Carolina & include city stores, they may come back & look at a city store for Philadelphia.
Last edited by southbound_295; 05-17-2018 at 11:30 AM..
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