Philadelphia 2035 (Washington, Ardmore, Media: manufacturers, corruption, start)

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Sometimes certain posters forget that Philadelphia is huge dynamic city, and they like to play 1950s small town America forever.

I know that cities grow and change, but some change can result in damage that can't be undone. I had no issue when the Boyd Theatre was dismantled in order to bring vibrancy to that block (though we're still waiting). The Boyd had sat there for years, an abandoned hulk in the middle of a block primed to take off. I know it was a loss, but there was simply no financially viable plan to restore and reopen it after years of trying to do so. If and when the same thing should happen with the Royal, I will feel similarly.

But the TB project in JR is completely different. Local independent entrepreneurs with successful businesses are having their livelihoods taken away from them. I predict that within 10 years, JR will be completely gone. And it won't be because the businesses were failing. It will be because developers and some contingent of real estate owners saw an opportunity to make more bucks by permanently destroying a unique corner of Philadelphia's character and replacing it a row of generic towers that could have gone up anywhere. I walk around WashWest pretty frequently, and there are a number of spots which, unlike JR, are in need of refurbishment. Once JR is gone, it will never come back.

Too bad, so sad I guess, huh?

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Sometimes certain posters forget that Philadelphia is huge dynamic city, and they like to play 1950s small town America forever.

The city was huger in the 1950s. It was not small town America at all.

Surely you know that 1950s Philadelphia was still.. well maybe you don't know.... in its powerhouse manufacturing days and was at the height of its population at over 2 million people and was the 3rd largest city in the country. This was before most of the white flight happened and, many neighborhoods, including what we still consider "ghetto" today, were whole.

It's only been in the last 20, or less, years that things are turning inside the city. But it won't reach 2 million people in a long time or ever again. And it probably will not stay 5th largest city in the 2020 census.

Besides southbound and I were children in the 1950s. That decade belonged to our parents, aka, the Greatest Generation.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Jewelers row isn't just retailers. Did you know that? Did you ever wonder why there aren't tons of break ins there? Of course you didn't. If that thought had occurred to you, you wouldn't have posted that snarky comment.

Most cities don't have a jewelers row anymore. It's a throwback to when Jews weren't usually welcome everywhere, & jewelers who were Jewish lived & worked together.

You live in the suburbs. Take a trip to jewelers row & talk to people. Talk to customers & the jewelers.

cpomp grew up in Phila. suburbs but lives in NYC now. But he probably has spent at least some time walking around that neighborhood.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Thanks.

It's a shame. Yes, they will go on, but it will likely break up the district. The retailers will probably disperse. The manufacturers may also disperse. The wholesalers might leave the city, but life will go on for them.

Hmmm... Personally I think you're being a bit dramatic. It might help younger people become more aware of Jeweler's Row making them new customers.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

cpomp grew up in Phila. suburbs but lives in NYC now. But he probably has spent at least some time walking around that neighborhood.

I wasn't addressing that to him.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

I know that cities grow and change, but some change can result in damage that can't be undone. I had no issue when the Boyd Theatre was dismantled in order to bring vibrancy to that block (though we're still waiting). The Boyd had sat there for years, an abandoned hulk in the middle of a block primed to take off. I know it was a loss, but there was simply no financially viable plan to restore and reopen it after years of trying to do so. If and when the same thing should happen with the Royal, I will feel similarly.

But the TB project in JR is completely different. Local independent entrepreneurs with successful businesses are having their livelihoods taken away from them. I predict that within 10 years, JR will be completely gone. And it won't be because the businesses were failing. It will be because developers and some contingent of real estate owners saw an opportunity to make more bucks by permanently destroying a unique corner of Philadelphia's character and replacing it a row of generic towers that could have gone up anywhere. I walk around WashWest pretty frequently, and there are a number of spots which, unlike JR, are in need of refurbishment. Once JR is gone, it will never come back.

Too bad, so sad I guess, huh?

+5 Can't rep you again.

There's wholesale, retail, manufacturing, & a refinery there. The refinery also sells tools. If the retailers no longer feel safe because of too many unknowns, they will scatter. If they aren't there, the manufacturers will scatter. Without either of the other groups there, the wholesalers have no reason to stay. They can do their business anywhere, including online. The refinery? They can go to the suburbs. No one has to stay. They've stayed partly because of tradition. By the 70s, it was no longer 100% Jewish, but I heard about when it was.

I think your timeline is about right. It will be gone in 5 - 15 years. It's a shame. There's no good reason for it.

[Pine to Vine]

^^^ Such a shame.

Can't rep you either.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Thanks.

It's a shame. Yes, they will go on, but it will likely break up the district. The retailers will probably disperse. The manufacturers may also disperse. The wholesalers might leave the city, but life will go on for them.

The developer who owns the building at the other end of the 700 block of Sansom (and whose company is headquartered in it) doesn't agree.

Equally interesting IMO is that most of the people with Jewelers Row addresses who testified before the Historical Commission supported the project. Most of them, I recall, were property owners, though some owned shops on the street.

The people who testified against at the WSWCA and had a Jewelers Row connection largely lived on the street, especially in the buildings slated to disappear. A couple were older, a couple younger. It was one of the younger ones who told me that the St. James was half-empty.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by kyb01

The city was huger in the 1950s. It was not small town America at all.

Surely you know that 1950s Philadelphia was still.. well maybe you don't know.... in its powerhouse manufacturing days and was at the height of its population at over 2 million people and was the 3rd largest city in the country. This was before most of the white flight happened and, many neighborhoods, including what we still consider "ghetto" today, were whole.

It's only been in the last 20, or less, years that things are turning inside the city. But it won't reach 2 million people in a long time or ever again. And it probably will not stay 5th largest city in the 2020 census.

Besides southbound and I were children in the 1950s. That decade belonged to our parents, aka, the Greatest Generation.

I wasn't referring to Philadelphia in the 1950s, I was poking at the simple minded nature of many Americans in the 1950s.

Originally Posted by kyb01

cpomp grew up in Phila. suburbs but lives in NYC now. But he probably has spent at least some time walking around that neighborhood.

I did live in Philadelphia for 5 years, a friend of mine actually opened the coffee shop (Arterial Agents) on the corner of 7th and Samson and my parents work near Wash Sq, and I was a construction/architectural engineering major at Drexel, so contrary to what some may believe, I have spent many many hours exploring ALL parts of Philadelphia, not just the pretty ones.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

I know that cities grow and change, but some change can result in damage that can't be undone. I had no issue when the Boyd Theatre was dismantled in order to bring vibrancy to that block (though we're still waiting). The Boyd had sat there for years, an abandoned hulk in the middle of a block primed to take off. I know it was a loss, but there was simply no financially viable plan to restore and reopen it after years of trying to do so. If and when the same thing should happen with the Royal, I will feel similarly.

But the TB project in JR is completely different. Local independent entrepreneurs with successful businesses are having their livelihoods taken away from them. I predict that within 10 years, JR will be completely gone. And it won't be because the businesses were failing. It will be because developers and some contingent of real estate owners saw an opportunity to make more bucks by permanently destroying a unique corner of Philadelphia's character and replacing it a row of generic towers that could have gone up anywhere. I walk around WashWest pretty frequently, and there are a number of spots which, unlike JR, are in need of refurbishment. Once JR is gone, it will never come back.

Too bad, so sad I guess, huh?

Lets just say hypothetically: The rest of the block makes it through historic designation or does not get developed (we can only build so much in CC) and Toll decides to add jewelers on the ground floor retail, aside from 18 months of construction, it would seem that both sides win and Jewelers Row would survive and likely see more foot traffic than years before.