Philadelphia 2035 (York, Pottstown, Pottsville: hotel, transfer, neighborhood)

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

I meant Pottsville as diesel service from Philadelphia went all the way up to Pottsville via Reading.


I meant Newark, New Jersey as it used to run. I forgot about the other Newark!

I wonder if the battery electric locomotives can work for these routes. They're used in some other parts of the world and they draw power when they can, but otherwise run off their batteries.

There are some communities not doing fantastically well along these routes, but are very densely built in their cores due to the geography and age of establishment of these cities. Train service to them makes sense both in terms of throwing these communities a lifeline and to get more of the state legislature and the counties onboard with improving SEPTA. I think there's a way to do this that can help align a much larger region's interests.

I wish NJT would extend their NE corridor trains all the way to 30th

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

This is a topic we agree on. This would fall under general infrastructure improvements in Philadelphia, and though it may cost more money upfront, there would be tremendous benefits to the QOL on the street and attraction of the city if there were a landscaped median on Broad or Market Street, or decorative traffic poles and light poles on Walnut / Chestnut. They are the city's most prime boulevards and they should be treated as such.

The Benjamin Franklin Parkway is the exception, that is a beautiful stretch of road and is one of the few American streets that reminds me of Paris.
I do wish for another Barnes quality museum and a few cafes so people can stop and enjoy the stretch a bit more though.

The CCD should hear about your thoughts. Let them know. It's worth a try.

The Calder Museum, which I was really for looking to, didn't happen because, apparently, the heirs were having trouble deciding what to include. So that project fell apart. Sigh.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

I meant Pottsville as diesel service from Philadelphia went all the way up to Pottsville via Reading.

OK, gotcha. See my comment upthread about SEPTA running service outside its service area. If there is no public transit agency serving Pottsville, either the borough or Schuylkill County would probably have to buy into the project.

I meant Newark, New Jersey as it used to run. I forgot about the other Newark!

Since the breakup of the Penn Central and the creation of Conrail put local intraregional rail service in the hands of the various metropolitan transit authorities, unless SEPTA and New Jersey Transit reach some sort of agreement to operate through local service, you will be changing trains at Trenton for as far in the future as any of us might be able to see. kidphilly, please copy. Especially because, the way transit service is divvied up now, New Jersey Transit trains could not legally pick up passengers traveling between points in Pennsylvania, nor SEPTA trains pick up passengers traveling between points in New Jersey. Which would mean that absent a joint operating agreement, NJT NEC trains would run express from Trenton to 30th Street. SEPTA trains would have the added burden of having to negotiate access into New York Penn Station, which the New York MTA controls for purposes of intraregional commuter service, unless they terminated their runs at either Newark or Secaucus Transfer.

I wonder if the battery electric locomotives can work for these routes. They're used in some other parts of the world and they draw power when they can, but otherwise run off their batteries.

Given that a round trip from end of wire to end of route in just about all cases (Pottsville a possible exception) would be less than 186 miles, it's conceivable that battery EMUs could work to extend service back to non-electrified territory. And now that the FRA no longer requires that passenger rail coaches on mainline railroads be built like tanks, they could be practical too.

There are some communities not doing fantastically well along these routes, but are very densely built in their cores due to the geography and age of establishment of these cities. Train service to them makes sense both in terms of throwing these communities a lifeline and to get more of the state legislature and the counties onboard with improving SEPTA. I think there's a way to do this that can help align a much larger region's interests.

Why do you think Pottstown wants service to return?

I think you have a point here, but that would require regional thinking of a sort we've only just barely mastered within the one region of Greater Philadelphia.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

OK, gotcha. See my comment upthread about SEPTA running service outside its service area. If there is no public transit agency serving Pottsville, either the borough or Schuylkill County would probably have to buy into the project.




Since the breakup of the Penn Central and the creation of Conrail put local intraregional rail service in the hands of the various metropolitan transit authorities, unless SEPTA and New Jersey Transit reach some sort of agreement to operate through local service, you will be changing trains at Trenton for as far in the future as any of us might be able to see. kidphilly, please copy. Especially because, the way transit service is divvied up now, New Jersey Transit trains could not legally pick up passengers traveling between points in Pennsylvania, nor SEPTA trains pick up passengers traveling between points in New Jersey. Which would mean that absent a joint operating agreement, NJT NEC trains would run express from Trenton to 30th Street. SEPTA trains would have the added burden of having to negotiate access into New York Penn Station, which the New York MTA controls for purposes of intraregional commuter service, unless they terminated their runs at either Newark or Secaucus Transfer.



Given that a round trip from end of wire to end of route in just about all cases (Pottsville a possible exception) would be less than 186 miles, it's conceivable that battery EMUs could work to extend service back to non-electrified territory. And now that the FRA no longer requires that passenger rail coaches on mainline railroads be built like tanks, they could be practical too.



Why do you think Pottstown wants service to return?

I think you have a point here, but that would require regional thinking of a sort we've only just barely mastered within the one region of Greater Philadelphia.

That is a shame as an extended NJT NE direct would be a nice addition, even if with limited stops (Woodhaven, North Philly, 30th Street)

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by kyb01

The CCD should hear about your thoughts. Let them know. It's worth a try.

The Calder Museum, which I was really for looking to, didn't happen because, apparently, the heirs were having trouble deciding what to include. So that project fell apart. Sigh.

I do contribute to a lot of PHL development threads on FB, so I know a few people to reach out to, it would be more worthwhile if I lived in the city though.

That is a shame, I wonder why the funding wasn't there? Did investors and donors not see potential? Poor marketing?

I would love the Parkway to see another museum, that would really top it off with the renovated PMA, the Barnes, and re-enlivened Rodin.

or some sort of smaller scale mixed use development to bring sidewalk cafes or something. Like I said its a beautiful stretch of road, but additional resources would make people linger rather than one long trek to the Art Museum.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I do contribute to a lot of PHL development threads on FB, so I know a few people to reach out to, it would be more worthwhile if I lived in the city though.

That is a shame, I wonder why the funding wasn't there? Did investors and donors not see potential? Poor marketing?

I would love the Parkway to see another museum, that would really top it off with the renovated PMA, the Barnes, and re-enlivened Rodin.

or some sort of smaller scale mixed use development to bring sidewalk cafes or something. Like I said its a beautiful stretch of road, but additional resources would make people linger rather than one long trek to the Art Museum.

agree on nearly all aspects. On museums, yes would be great but they generally don't just fall out of the sky. The city is getting a new modern art museum in Fishtown which I think is good and only strengthens that area




I would like to see the parkway close the outer lanes (bikes, pedestrians etc.) on weekends and they could add food trucks, beer gardens, outdoor things (art fleas, music) maybe some evening entertainment too


Also I think they need to aloow smart and more development closer to the parkway

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I would love the Parkway to see another museum, that would really top it off with the renovated PMA, the Barnes, and re-enlivened Rodin.

or some sort of smaller scale mixed use development to bring sidewalk cafes or something. Like I said its a beautiful stretch of road, but additional resources would make people linger rather than one long trek to the Art Museum.

The Calder museum was supposed to be across from the Rodin, se corner of 22nd and the Parkway, btw.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

agree on nearly all aspects. On museums, yes would be great but they generally don't just fall out of the sky. The city is getting a new modern art museum in Fishtown which I think is good and only strengthens that area




I would like to see the parkway close the outer lanes (bikes, pedestrians etc.) on weekends and they could add food trucks, beer gardens, outdoor things (art fleas, music) maybe some evening entertainment too


Also I think they need to aloow smart and more development closer to the parkway

Eakins Oval, in summer, does serve some of what you are talking about.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Basically: Any extension of SEPTA service outside SEPTA's operating territory would require buy-in from whatever transit agency provides service in that other area. (Just as Delaware pays for SEPTA Regional Rail service in New Castle County. The state also owns four Silverliner V coaches outright. They're identified with "Property of the State of Delaware" plaques near their doors.)

In Reading's case, that would be BARTA. I don't think Schuylkill County is in its service area. I'm not even sure public transit operates in Pottsville.

Just saw this the other day and had to read it twice. Haha.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Basically: Any extension of SEPTA service outside SEPTA's operating territory would require buy-in from whatever transit agency provides service in that other area. (Just as Delaware pays for SEPTA Regional Rail service in New Castle County. The state also owns four Silverliner V coaches outright. They're identified with "Property of the State of Delaware" plaques near their doors.)

In Reading's case, that would be BARTA. I don't think Schuylkill County is in its service area. I'm not even sure public transit operates in Pottsville.

BARTA serves Berks County. Most of what BARTA offers are city transit routes in Reading (the 5th largest city in PA).


Schuylkill Transportation System serves Schuylkill County. Pottsville is a much smaller city than Reading. Most of what STS provides is bus service from the smaller towns in Schuylkill County to the bus depot in Pottsville.



I recall that the systems used to meet at one time near the border of Berks and Schuylkill, but they don't seem to anymore.