Being white in Philly: A Discussion of the Philadelphia Magazine article (attorney, school)

[john_starks]

how many non-white or black ppl are posting in this thread...

curious to get another perspective since the article was only based on the white insecurities

[scosm]

Originally Posted by rraC ynnaD

Diversity is seldom good ... sometimes you have different cultures and religions that just don't mesh, and it has nothing to do with economics. Asian, white, black, Hispanic, Middle-Eastern, Jewish, Muslim, etc - we're all different and sometimes (due to experiences, comfort levels or tradition) we're not going to like certain traits about another culture. It's human nature.
Of course, the well-adjusted are going treat others as individuals, but I'd bet (and most won't admit to it, esp white Americans) most in the general population have a "people" they're not very fond of (for whatever reason).
e.g - Puerto Ricans vs Dominicans
Irish vs English
Chinese vs Japanese
Poles vs Russians
Argentinians vs Brazilians
As Huber was getting at, it just seems as if it's ok for everybody except for white Americans to be race/culture conscious.

C'mon really? You think Argentinians and Brazilians can't live in the same neighborhood because some soccer related riots breaking out? And Irish and English immigrants in the US wouldn't get along? I know bad things have happened before, but it doesn't mean diversity is impossible, as I think you are saying. Our great great grandparents would have been shocked that jews, catholics and protestants can all live in harmony on the same street without home values going into a free fall so you can't say that diversity is impossible.

[loose cannon]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

I didn't think the article was focused at all on being white in Philly but rather "I'm really awkward and don't know how to interact with people who aren't just like me."

The reason I think it's racist is because of its particular focus on the behavior and living conditions of the people in a small geographical area and attributing those behaviors and conditions to their race. I mean, this is Philadelphia. Has the author never been to Kensington to see white people doing the same stuff?

As far as the overly-polite thing, like I said earlier, I'm not one for white guilt. I'm real all the time and I treat everyone the same. If people want to think I'm racist because they happen pass by me on the street when I'm having a bad day, that's their problem.

I used to manage a restaurant and this older, black dude from the neighborhood swings open the front door and stands in the doorway shouting at me from across the dining room. Mind you, it's cold out (this was last winter), and he's standing there with the door open. It's also 8pm and the restaurant is full and everyone stops eating to look at this guy. He was asking about our menu so I wave him towards me, walk over to him with a menu, ask him if he wants to sit down and he says no, he just wants take-out, so I hand him the menu and point him to the take-out counter. While I'm doing it I show him a short-cut through the server station.

5 minutes later he walks up to me outside the building and said, "I didn't appreciate that s**t one bit. The way you treated me in there. Trying to shove me out the side door like that. But that's OK. I see what you're all about. Trying to make a black man feel uncomfortable in his own neighborhood."

To be fair, I didn't really want him walking through the dining room again but it had nothing to do with him being black. It was because he didn't know how to act in public much less in a restaurant and he was clearly bothering the other patrons. But to him I'm just some racist white guy who doesn't want black people in his restaurant.

That's not really a middle class black problem, though. Here's one - I was in line behind this black guy who wanted to pay with his credit card, girl at the counter (white, college aged, maybe 21 or 22) asked to see his ID. Black dude was incredulous. (I'm gonna peg this guy as middle class but not necessarily suburban upbringing, probably 7-10 years out of college) There's this little back and forth about why he needs to show ID, she says it's because she can't see the signature, he suggests it's because he's black and that they don't ask anyone else for ID, why should he show his. He pays cash, promises not to come back. Cashier is flustered. I pull out my card. She doesn't ask for my ID. I was glad the guy was gone because he really would've flipped. She also never said hello or made eye contact with me the entire time. I really think she just wanted to go in the back and cry.

Why it stood out for me is because I get asked to show ID about half the time I use one of my cards - usually for the same reason the girl mentioned and it's because I keep my cards loose in my pocket and the signature rubs off.

I would havetold the guy to **** off! We will not take the burden of white guilt bs!

[Cnote11]

I finally got around to reading the article and found it rather interesting, but something I ultimately cannot relate to. My father was the only white guy in the Detroit High School basketball league, and I think that set the tone for the way I was raised. Growing up intimately around black people, whether African-American, African, West Indian, etc. and taking on many as personal mentors and role models gives me a different perspective, perhaps. It imbued me with a sense of individual presence over perceived collective aspects. I know from experience that the stereotypes do not hold weight. When I open the door for a white, black, asian, or whatever, my mind does not go into the same space as the authors of that article. When I read that, I burst out laughing at the absurdity of such a thing.

Sometimes I am thankful that I grew up in and around Detroit. The deep history of race relations has really taught me a lot. Having been through a large portion of my life impoverished actually meant that I identified more with whomever was also impoverished, and that was often times the Arab and African-American population within the area. I've certainly discussed race, religion, and culture relationships with all stripes around where I grew up, and I've never had a problem doing so because I'm white.

What did resonate with me was the story about the twelve-year-old selling drugs in the alleyway. This is a reality, and I knew many who did this to try to get by. This doesn't by itself make anybody "bad" or even dangerous. Perhaps foreign to people who had a lily-white upbringing, but nevertheless.

I hear all over the internet about poor race relations between blacks and whites in Philadelphia. I know I've only been here for a few months, but I've yet to experience anything like they describe. I'm also led to believe that I've actually spoken to more blacks in Philadelphia within these last few months than most people in Philadelphia have in their entire lives of being here. The article makes me feel this even more when it talks about whites and blacks "staying to their own". I have had a few negative encounters now, and each one of those have been with a white person. However, I'm bright enough to know that the ignorance of some does not make a universal truth.

[rraC ynnaD]

Originally Posted by scosm

C'mon really? You think Argentinians and Brazilians can't live in the same neighborhood because some soccer related riots breaking out? And Irish and English immigrants in the US wouldn't get along? I know bad things have happened before, but it doesn't mean diversity is impossible, as I think you are saying. Our great great grandparents would have been shocked that jews, catholics and protestants can all live in harmony on the same street without home values going into a free fall so you can't say that diversity is impossible.

I'm saying most cultures have a people they traditionally don't like. Sure, a few here and there can live together, but once one side becomes too prevalent, it usually becomes uncomfortable for the minority. If this weren't the case, we wouldn't have predominantly black/white/Asian/Hispanic neighborhoods. Most people seem to want to live with their "own."

[rraC ynnaD]

Originally Posted by Cnote11

I finally got around to reading the article and found it rather interesting, but something I ultimately cannot relate to. My father was the only white guy in the Detroit High School basketball league, and I think that set the tone for the way I was raised. Growing up intimately around black people, whether African-American, African, West Indian, etc. and taking on many as personal mentors and role models gives me a different perspective, perhaps. It imbued me with a sense of individual presence over perceived collective aspects. I know from experience that the stereotypes do not hold weight. When I open the door for a white, black, asian, or whatever, my mind does not go into the same space as the authors of that article. When I read that, I burst out laughing at the absurdity of such a thing.

Sometimes I am thankful that I grew up in and around Detroit. The deep history of race relations has really taught me a lot. Having been through a large portion of my life impoverished actually meant that I identified more with whomever was also impoverished, and that was often times the Arab and African-American population within the area. I've certainly discussed race, religion, and culture relationships with all stripes around where I grew up, and I've never had a problem doing so because I'm white.

What did resonate with me was the story about the twelve-year-old selling drugs in the alleyway. This is a reality, and I knew many who did this to try to get by. This doesn't by itself make anybody "bad" or even dangerous. Perhaps foreign to people who had a lily-white upbringing, but nevertheless.

I hear all over the internet about poor race relations between blacks and whites in Philadelphia. I know I've only been here for a few months, but I've yet to experience anything like they describe. I'm also led to believe that I've actually spoken to more blacks in Philadelphia within these last few months than most people in Philadelphia have in their entire lives of being here. The article makes me feel this even more when it talks about whites and blacks "staying to their own". I have had a few negative encounters now, and each one of those have been with a white person. However, I'm bright enough to know that the ignorance of some does not make a universal truth.

Being as you were raised with blacks, you may be more tolerant of certain behavior and cultural traits .

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by rraC ynnaD

Diversity is seldom good ... sometimes you have different cultures and religions that just don't mesh, and it has nothing to do with economics. Asian, white, black, Hispanic, Middle-Eastern, Jewish, Muslim, etc - we're all different and sometimes (due to experiences, comfort levels or tradition) we're not going to like certain traits about another culture. It's human nature.
Of course, the well-adjusted are going treat others as individuals, but I'd bet (and most won't admit to it, esp white Americans) most in the general population have a "people" they're not very fond of (for whatever reason).
e.g - Puerto Ricans vs Dominicans
Irish vs English
Chinese vs Japanese
Poles vs Russians
Argentinians vs Brazilians
As Huber was getting at, it just seems as if it's ok for everybody except for white Americans to be race/culture conscious.

Now, there are areas that have become diverse organically. It works for them.

The big problem is when government forces people of different classes, races and religions to live together....like with section 8

[FBJ]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Now, there are areas that have become diverse organically. It works for them.

The big problem is when government forces people of different classes, races and religions to live together....like with section 8

No need to keep bringing it up because it's not going anywhere

[drive carephilly]

I just saw a picture of the actual cover of the magazine (I read the article online) and it says something about our "increasingly segregated neighborhoods."

This isn't entirely true. Parts of North and West are more than 90% AA but the rest of the city is mostly diverse. You get a few census tracts (Bridesburg, Packer Park, etc) that are more than 90% white but that's about it. Most neighborhoods that are majority white in Philly are 60-70% white.

[Cnote11]

I'd say Philadelphia is a lot more diverse than it was 50 years ago.