Suburban Flight (Chester, Norristown: home, neighborhoods, university)

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

The benefits of a move to the city

So you think as businesses move to the city housing will tank in the suburbs? I know if SAP were to leave Newtown Square that area would probably lose half it's value. Philly is still particularly suburb job heavy but downtown is becoming the trend... As philly becomes more of the place to be it's the jobs in it's suburbs who are going to feel the most pressure to move in.

Newtown Square has many desirable qualities independent of SAP's location. In any event, as used here, "tank" is an alarmist word that signifies wishful thinking far more than a well-thought out opinion/prediction. Do costs/desirability shift in accordance with migration patterns? Of course. But not all suburban job centers are created equal.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

I
I do think the long term trend is towards less car dependent places, whatever political boundaries they fall in. I'd love to be able to say that employers are as behind the trend as many people seem to be - I just don't necessarily see it.

It's a longer-term trend, obviously. For major companies, you're absolutely right. It is rare for a company like an SAP or Vanguard to completely uproot their operations. There's simply too many logistics involved for this to happen often.

However, I think you're wrong about newer, start-up companies. When First Round Capital moved their operations to West Philly, that was a huge deal. Start-up companies definitely pay attention to things like that, because they want access to capital and talent, as the article notes. This is particularly exciting, because they're not only choosing the city for their current operations, but they're looking at the city as a place to grow, as well.

So, I think it's very reasonable to assert that there's a beginning of trend here for Philadelphia. There's not going to be a giant wave of jobs created in the city overnight, but there have definitely been enough relocations to the city in recent months to make it newsworthy and create a sort of business buzz that Center City hasn't seen in decades.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Padugan

I don't think having an address in the city is nearly as important as it was 25 years ago. Transportation and proximity was a necessary when physically being in a place was necessary. Now with all the telecommunications advancements, companies no longer need to be in the middle of it. And their workers no longer need to be physically in the office. Add to that the unfriendly business climate currently in the city both for employee (wage tax) and employer, just don't see it happening.

In many cases, the city can be cheaper for a new company due to tax breaks and incentives. It has to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Telecommuting certainly has gained popularity, but it still has limitations. To some extent, a company will still need co-located operations for more effective face-to-face contact and collaboration. Not everything can be done remotely.

Originally Posted by Padugan

Septa would be better served to concentrate on getting people from burb to burb directly without having to go through the city than anything else.

SEPTA can barely afford to maintain what it has now, so expansion is going to be non-starter until it has a more robust capital budget. Not to mention, traffic is increasingly terrible in the suburbs. All major corridors (476, 202, 76, 422) are ridiculously congested. Being centrally located downtown goes a long way towards avoiding that.

Originally Posted by Padugan

At any rate, even if all the major employers up and moved to the city tomorrow, People would just commute in. The schools are still terrible, and at the end of the day, a $500K house in the burbs is going to be more attractive than a $500K house/condo in the city for a family.

Yes, city living is obviously not for every family, but there are still lots of families that choose it. So long as the city can sustain better neighborhood schools (and the surrounding real estate is not prohibitively expensive for the middle class), plenty of people would opt to stay in the city to raise children.

[The Watusi]

Remember the city is not business friendly unless you are Comcast. I know a lot of companies in the burbs...Wayne, KoP, Blue Bell who are very happy in their current locations. They all advertise "Philadelphia" on their websites and yet enjoy the convenience of the burbs.

I remember years ago when Street was mayor. US Airways desperately wanted out of Charlotte and was thinking of relocating to Philly since we are a major hub on the east coast. Of course the city botched the deal and it never happened. I really wanted to see it happen because it would have been great for city at a time when it needed it most.

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by The Watusi

I remember years ago when Street was mayor. US Airways desperately wanted out of Charlotte and was thinking of relocating to Philly since we are a major hub on the east coast. Of course the city botched the deal and it never happened. I really wanted to see it happen because it would have been great for city at a time when it needed it most.

John Street wasn't really a forward thinking mayor.

[nuhusky11]

Originally Posted by Duderino

It's a longer-term trend, obviously. For major companies, you're absolutely right. It is rare for a company like an SAP or Vanguard to completely uproot their operations. There's simply too many logistics involved for this to happen often.

However, I think you're wrong about newer, start-up companies. When First Round Capital moved their operations to West Philly, that was a huge deal. Start-up companies definitely pay attention to things like that, because they want access to capital and talent, as the article notes. This is particularly exciting, because they're not only choosing the city for their current operations, but they're looking at the city as a place to grow, as well.

So, I think it's very reasonable to assert that there's a beginning of trend here for Philadelphia. There's not going to be a giant wave of jobs created in the city overnight, but there have definitely been enough relocations to the city in recent months to make it newsworthy and create a sort of business buzz that Center City hasn't seen in decades.

I think the key point here is younger people want to live in the city, and its younger people who tend to work at startups. Note - this is not a rule but can't argue the majority of startups are young. People with families tend to require the security of larger companies and lets face it they have no desire to send their kids to schools in Philly nor commute into Philly if they can hop in their car to KOP or elsewhere

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by nuhusky11

I think the key point here is younger people want to live in the city, and its younger people who tend to work at startups. Note - this is not a rule but can't argue the majority of startups are young. People with families tend to require the security of larger companies and lets face it they have no desire to send their kids to schools in Philly nor commute into Philly if they can hop in their car to KOP or elsewhere

I already acknowledged that schools are a critical issue, but although the PSD has many serious challenges, there are schools in certain catchment areas in the city to help to retain families looking for desirable schools.

Also, again, commuting in the suburbs is getting more and more horrendous with each passing year. As many know, the Philly region's highway capacity is extremely low and very outmoded compared to other major metro areas (not that I'm a fan of super highways). Who wants to spend a ridiculous amount of time commuting to KoP when I can take a quick train to Center City?

Larger companies can also establish satellite offices in Center City, as has already been mentioned. For many, young and old, the city is much more stimulating and more livable. A revitalized downtown environment will definitely be more attractive to many companies and residents rather than working in a random office park with limited amenities and social interaction.

[6456yt]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I would highly doubt it. Not taking away from all of the revitalization, but the Philadelphia suburbs have always been and probably will always be where most of the money is in this area.

Always been?

No.

To answer the OP's question, not all places in the metro are the same. Nobody would flee places like the Main Line, but those more middle class, new money suburbs? Definitely.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by 6456yt

Always been?

No.

To answer the OP's question, not all places in the metro are the same. Nobody would flee places like the Main Line, but those more middle class, new money suburbs? Definitely.

You are clearly here just to get under peoples skin. The main line is not an untouchable force. And FYI not everyone can afford the main line so those new money middle class towns that you so snobbishly put down just now are providing great lives for thousands of families in the area.

[6456yt]

Originally Posted by cpomp

You are clearly here just to get under peoples skin. The main line is not an untouchable force. And FYI not everyone can afford the main line so those new money middle class towns that you so snobbishly put down just now are providing great lives for thousands of families in the area.

No, you just clearly don't like people saying anything that contradicts the bubble you grew up in.

Snobbishly? They are what they are. I'm not the one acting like the suburbs are more important than the city or superior to working class parts of the metro.