Northeast Philly and the northwest neighborhoods: Should they still be part of city? (Philadelphia: home, schools)

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

I'll try to re-find what I found concerning the consolidation. It might be a while as I currently have other fish to fry. I did stumbled on a very good article on the reasons for the consolidation. I was trying to date a neighborhood in North Philadelphia in the 1880s while researching something in my family. I found the article as well as maps showing that the area had been part of Penn Twp before the consolidation & was still rural at the time of the Civil War. That explained to me how a competent cavalry regiment was raised in the city. (I had run across them while researching other family lines whose sons were mostly in the Army of the Ohio / Army of the Cumberland.)

You probably know about these: Philadelphia and the Civil War by Anthony Waskie and Mastering Wartime, A Social History of Philadelphia During the Civil War by J. Malthew Gallman.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

I had heard that it was in west Philadelphia, but not sure of exact location during the war. Even when I heard that, the conversation was based on the city as it was for most of the 20th century.

I believe it was near and west of Clark Park essentially where the Spruce Hill neighborhood is today. Wounded soldiers were barged, or something like that, up the Schuykill, to ambalances near what is now 42nd and Woodland, just south of the Woodlands Cemetery.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

You probably know about these: Philadelphia and the Civil War by Anthony Waskie and Mastering Wartime, A Social History of Philadelphia During the Civil War by J. Malthew Gallman.

I'm not familiar with either, but thanks for the names.

Philadelphia was torn over the war. The mills had ties to the South for cotton. Many people had family ties to the Confederacy, especially Quakers. There was a sizeable Quaker population in NC & VA.

Louisa May Alcott was born in Germantown, PA, prior to the consolidation.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

I'm not familiar with either, but thanks for the names.

Philadelphia was torn over the war. The mills had ties to the South for cotton. Many people had family ties to the Confederacy, especially Quakers. There was a sizeable Quaker population in NC & VA.

Louisa May Alcott was born in Germantown, PA, prior to the consolidation.

Getting off of topic but the New York Historic Society had a terrific exhibit a couple of years ago about very much the same connection between the NY, the South and export of cotton to Britain for clothing manufacturing before the American mills got as big as they became.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

I'm not familiar with either, but thanks for the names.

Philadelphia was torn over the war. The mills had ties to the South for cotton. Many people had family ties to the Confederacy, especially Quakers. There was a sizeable Quaker population in NC & VA.

Louisa May Alcott was born in Germantown, PA, prior to the consolidation.

The Booth Family comes to mind. JW Booth's siblings were both northerners and had ties to Philadelphia through the Arch St Theater. And JW Booth was a southerner who kept that mindset his entire life.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

I believe it was near and west of Clark Park essentially where the Spruce Hill neighborhood is today. Wounded soldiers were barged, or something like that, up the Schuykill, to ambalances near what is now 42nd and Woodland, just south of the Woodlands Cemetery.

Thanks. I've read bits & pieces about that hospital (Civil War hospitals, in general, were quite different from our modern concepts of hospitals.) Medicine was also quite different. While the doctors did use ether, sanitation was rarely involved & infection was thought to be part of the healing process, complete with running pus & raging fevers frequently accompanied by delirium.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Getting off of topic but the New York Historic Society had a terrific exhibit a couple of years ago about very much the same connection between the NY, the South and export of cotton to Britain for clothing manufacturing before the American mills got as big as they became.

This seems like the perfect thread to toss in a ton of history. The Commonwealth legislature did the consolidation. They would have to undo it. That's not happening.

Yes, NYC was still involved in the cotton trade with British mills on the eve of the Civil War. The NJ legislature debated secession but decided that it wouldn't work with federal troops in Maryland & Delaware. Delaware requested the federal troops. It was just a mess. There was nothing cut & dried about it.

There were several branches of the (Quaker) Mendenhall family in NC. I've seen family papers online & one of the women made a trip to Philadelphia during the war.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

The Booth Family comes to mind. JW Booth's siblings were both northerners and had ties to Philadelphia through the Arch St Theater. And JW Booth was a southerner who kept that mindset his entire life.

I'm sure that you remember the centennial of that war, as I do. It really was brother against brother, father against son.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

I'm sure that you remember the centennial of that war, as I do. It really was brother against brother, father against son.

The Civil War exhibit at the Union League on Broad St is quite good although it's really not open to the public during convenient hours.

[NYtoNJtoPA]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

Practically the entire modern city is not part of the original city of Philadelphia - see the map posted above.

It's not that uncommon with older cities - in fact all three cities I've lived in have had such an evolution. New York with the merging of the 5 counties into New York City (not to mention Queens County, whose consolidation alone is as complicated as Philadelphia, and where people still use the original pre-consolidation town names as their official mailing addresses) and Minneapolis which grew out of the consolidation of Minneapolis and Saint Anthony as well as much of the surrounding countryside over time.

You'd always have to draw the border somewhere. I don't think many people who live in NW Philadelphia anyway imagine themselves as being removed from the city - especially those of us who take that grueling 20 minute train ride to Center City everyday.

On the rare occasion I go to Northern Liberties I do feel like I'm somewhere different and weird though that might not actually be part of Philadelphia.

Northern Liberties is absolutely part of Philly. It's on the water between Fishtown and Old City. I'd say it's more like Philly than the Northeast.

It's been a common trend about NYC with its 5 boroughs, they think NJ should take Staten Island (Richmond Co.) and NYC take Hudson County, make it the Borough of Hudson.

I'm in Lower Bucks County, about 10 miles from the city limits, so I don't really know too much about Manayunk or Roxborough. I drove thru that area maybe once. But the NE areas are probably equivalent to Queens or Staten Island, sort of on the outer reaches, places like Somerton and Bustleton especially. On the other hand you have those old "outside" neighborhoods in Delaware County like the Darbys, Colwyn, Collingdale, Yeadon, Tinicum, Essington etc. that are more inner city than the NE neighborhoods. So if Philly gives up NE, Bucks and Montco take them, and Delco gives up those places mentioned, it is really kind of the same attitude people have about NYC switching territories.

IMO, every major city has different neighborhoods contained inside and outside its boundaries. Some are going to be more congested, others are going to be more spread out. Some are more well off, others are not. It is what it is. And in my area you have places like Bensalem which is an inner ring suburb that also runs this gamut. I know people who consider both Bensalem and the Delco areas mentioned part of Philly even though they technically are not.