The 76ers Center City Arena Will Dramatically Kill Center City! (Philadelphia: appointed, sales)

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by Oh2Me

They effectively tied up the 61 and 48 buses yesterday afternoon. Had children, elderly, and people trying to get to work stuck in the heat. If you’re going to protest, please take it to City Hall to be heard by those who are involved. Don’t hurt people who have nothing to do with this.

Protests aren’t necessarily designed to make things convenient for everyone. Being familiar with those routes, those buses only needed to move over to Market for a few blocks. When there are parades on Market Street around Christmas or Veterans Day, even more buses and cars are rerouted and few complain. The protest was a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things.

[JamesJay64]

Originally Posted by FindingZen

As many may know by now, there was a protest today in Chinatown against the Sixers arena proposal. One thing that I had not thought about and hadn't been discussed here is the potential impact of construction on the small businesses nearby. That makes sense as if the streets are cut off by noise and dust pollution, that could discourage a lot of people from traveling north off Market Street.


https://6abc.com/chinatown-protest-n...illa/13366498/

I get where you're coming from, but that's the reality of living in the third most-populated downtown in the country - you may end up adjacent to construction projects. I was in a twitter discussion with someone opposing the arena last night who spoke at the protest, his top reasons to oppose it were as follows:

1. "Years of hazardous construction for Chinatown residents"

2. "Will contribute to vacancies in the area, causing trash and crime"

3. "Funded by 3 billionaires who have made their money off of human rights abuses"

This just seems like flimsy, reflexive opposition to me. I found this tweet funny and it sums things up well: https://twitter.com/marketurbanism/s...BN0oUZUeuwgPNA

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by JamesJay64

I get where you're coming from, but that's the reality of living in the third most-populated downtown in the country - you may end up adjacent to construction projects. I was in a twitter discussion with someone opposing the arena last night who spoke at the protest, his top reasons to oppose it were as follows:

1. "Years of hazardous construction for Chinatown residents"

2. "Will contribute to vacancies in the area, causing trash and crime"

3. "Funded by 3 billionaires who have made their money off of human rights abuses"

This just seems like flimsy, reflexive opposition to me. I found this tweet funny and it sums things up well: https://twitter.com/marketurbanism/s...BN0oUZUeuwgPNA

Sure, construction in and around Center City goes on all the time. But when I think of other ongoing or upcoming projects - the condo high-rise on 20th and Walnut, the office building at 22nd and Market, the Chubb development at 19th and Arch - there has been minimal disruption.*

I agree with your discussion partner on their first two points. I don’t know enough about the third one to say whether that has any merit.

As an aside, I noted recently while heading east down the south side of the 1000 block of Market that there are only three active businesses operating: CVS, Freire Charter Middle School, and City Blue. IIUC City Blue is in the process of going out of business. So there would be less of an disruption IMO by building the arena on that side of the street than where the Fashion District mall currently stands.


*Granted, the 7-11 and Liberty Bar on 22nd were compelled to close…and I’m sure that the seniors over at the Jon Fox building - which, somewhat tying to the OP, is now majority Asian - were not thrilled with the adjacent construction noise. But even that is not on the scale of the proposed arena.

[Oh2Me]

Originally Posted by FindingZen

Protests aren’t necessarily designed to make things convenient for everyone. Being familiar with those routes, those buses only needed to move over to Market for a few blocks. When there are parades on Market Street around Christmas or Veterans Day, even more buses and cars are rerouted and few complain. The protest was a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things.

That’s true, but if the residents want others to be considerate of their concerns, they should also think about their neighbor’s. While it may seem minor to them, someone was stressed and unable to get to work. A mother of three was tired and in tears. None of them had anything to do with this situation, but they do have the right to public transportation access and the freedom to conduct their lives unimpeded.

From a strategy standpoint, they didn’t win any points from those unable to move due to public nuisance.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by FindingZen

Sure, construction in and around Center City goes on all the time. But when I think of other ongoing or upcoming projects - the condo high-rise on 20th and Walnut, the office building at 22nd and Market, the Chubb development at 19th and Arch - there has been minimal disruption.*

I agree with your discussion partner on their first two points. I don’t know enough about the third one to say whether that has any merit.

As an aside, I noted recently while heading east down the south side of the 1000 block of Market that there are only three active businesses operating: CVS, Freire Charter Middle School, and City Blue. IIUC City Blue is in the process of going out of business. So there would be less of an disruption IMO by building the arena on that side of the street than where the Fashion District mall currently stands.


*Granted, the 7-11 and Liberty Bar on 22nd were compelled to close…and I’m sure that the seniors over at the Jon Fox building - which, somewhat tying to the OP, is now majority Asian - were not thrilled with the adjacent construction noise. But even that is not on the scale of the proposed arena.

LOL... So, we are now dictating where (whether or not the property is available or feasible on which to build) private entities build multi-billion-dollar investments in our city? You do realize the Sixers will leave our city if they can't build their own stadium, right? You wanna know what is a quick way to destroy Chinatown in our city? Drive out all the revenue from companies, construction money and added jobs (not counting increased safety and vibrancy in the heart of our city).

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by Oh2Me

That’s true, but if the residents want others to be considerate of their concerns, they should also think about their neighbor’s. While it may seem minor to them, someone was stressed and unable to get to work. A mother of three was tired and in tears. None of them had anything to do with this situation, but they do have the right to public transportation access and the freedom to conduct their lives unimpeded.

From a strategy standpoint, they didn’t win any points from those unable to move due to public nuisance.

One thing I forgot to mention is that they likely had a permit to protest. I had heard about the march on Thursday or Friday. It may not have made the top of the news but someone put the info out there. Perhaps our local media could have done a better job. I do feel bad for people like the mother who apparently was not aware that the protest was going to happen. On the other hand, I’ve been mildly inconvenienced by marches that may or may not have been authorized in the recent past and any annoyance I may have had was gone by the time I reached my destination.

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

LOL... So, we are now dictating where (whether or not the property is available or feasible on which to build) private entities build multi-billion-dollar investments in our city? You do realize the Sixers will leave our city if they can't build their own stadium, right? You wanna know what is a quick way to destroy Chinatown in our city? Drive out all the revenue from companies, construction money and added jobs (not counting increased safety and vibrancy in the heart of our city).

This is not the first time I or others have suggested building across the street where land is either vacant (the “Disney Hole” parking lot at 8th) or severely underutilized (the aforementioned block right across the street from the proposed site). Without knowing who owns either of those parcels, I’d wager the respective asking prices would be less than what PREIT-Macerich would ask for.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by FindingZen

This is not the first time I or others have suggested building across the street where land is either vacant (the “Disney Hole” parking lot at 8th) or severely underutilized (the aforementioned block right across the street from the proposed site). Without knowing who owns either of those parcels, I’d wager the respective asking prices would be less than what PREIT-Macerich would ask for.

I'm not suggesting this is the first time you and other part-time bloggers have suggested the location across the street. What I am suggesting is that none of you are SVPs of Planning or lead architects for a city-changing $2B dollar construction project. We have zero idea of the feasibility of a build on a spot that we don't even know for sure is obtainable by the Sixers. Regardless, that entire stretch of Market (BOTH SIDES) is an embarrassment to the city and a danger to society, as it often serves at the meeting point for lawless youths to begin their looting and violent attacks on citizens. If a private company wants to pay to make this section fresh, new and vibrant, while almost certainly reducing or all together stopping lawlessness in the area, I'm all for it. Oh, and also employing hundreds/thousands of local workers and paying millions in taxes to help support our city. I bet you if we manage to beat back this idea, and the Sixers move to Camden, that the Camden government will let them locate literally anywhere they want without crying about parking spaces.

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

I'm not suggesting this is the first time you and other part-time bloggers have suggested the location across the street. What I am suggesting is that none of you are SVPs of Planning or lead architects for a city-changing $2B dollar construction project. We have zero idea of the feasibility of a build on a spot that we don't even know for sure is obtainable by the Sixers. Regardless, that entire stretch of Market (BOTH SIDES) is an embarrassment to the city and a danger to society, as it often serves at the meeting point for lawless youths to begin their looting and violent attacks on citizens. If a private company wants to pay to make this section fresh, new and vibrant, while almost certainly reducing or all together stopping lawlessness in the area, I'm all for it. Oh, and also employing hundreds/thousands of local workers and paying millions in taxes to help support our city. I bet you if we manage to beat back this idea, and the Sixers move to Camden, that the Camden government will let them locate literally anywhere they want without crying about parking spaces.

We are all - with the exception of our resident professional journalist - “part-time bloggers” with opinions of varying knowledge and empathy.

Would constructing the arena on the south side of Market not accomplish much of the same goals you envision with the current proposal?

I don’t know Camden neighborhoods very well but assuming they would build on the waterfront, I don’t see displacement concerns being so much of an issue. I’ll say that Cooper and Rutgers seem to have made more of an impact on the city than the [Insert Name Here] Pavillion.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by FindingZen

We are all - with the exception of our resident professional journalist - “part-time bloggers” with opinions of varying knowledge and empathy.

Would constructing the arena on the south side of Market not accomplish much of the same goals you envision with the current proposal?

I don’t know Camden neighborhoods very well but assuming they would build on the waterfront, I don’t see displacement concerns being so much of an issue. I’ll say that Cooper and Rutgers seem to have made more of an impact on the city than the [Insert Name Here] Pavillion.

His point is that the difference between the proposed stadium location and the Disney Hole (or south market and 11th) is that the proposed location is owned and ready to go. The Disney hole isn't for sale and neither is south Market Street. You can't just say "you should build it there." It's 1. not for sale and 2. has potential issues we might not know about.

Plus, you think that Chinatown would be all fine and dandy if the proposal was shifted across the street from it's current site? 20 feet across Market street and the rallies and "save Chinatown" protests go away?

I'll never understand the Nimby thought process in this town. It's nuts.