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The more I look at Primordal man and what Archaeology has unearthed, I keep telling myself that I just don't see sure signs of consciousness in them, which is unusual. I believe they existed, I believe that God created them, I am just not sure as to why! I don't believe that Adam was the " First man created", but the bible hints at that, so I begin to reason that he was the first man " Created with Consciousness", which is what I think the " Image of God is-- Consciousness."
When God gave Adam consciousness, it was then I believe civilization of humans began. I then consider these things as " Signs of Consciousness"- Civilization, agriculture, Language, Religion, science, transportation, Education and so on, none of which Primordal man displayed in a manner that we can trace. Which is perplexing to me.
Define what you are referring to as "primordial man". Also define what you perceive as "consciousness". If you believe the fictional Adam was the first human being with all the traits of modern homo sapiens as we know it, then you are so far off base it's not even worth discussing.
Therefore, you're going to have to elaborate a bit on what you're actually asking.
Define what you are referring to as "primordial man". Also define what you perceive as "consciousness". If you believe the fictional Adam was the first human being with all the traits of modern homo sapiens as we know it, then you are so far off base it's not even worth discussing.
Therefore, you're going to have to elaborate a bit on what you're actually asking.
Well I have no intention in swaying your value of whats worth discussing, those post I do not like, I simply don't post on them. I only join post that intrest me; that being said I'll still answer your questions:
Primordal man is any human before Adam, be it Neanderthal or Cromagnon. And there were plenty of them, and they survived for hundreds of thousands, perhaps into the millions of years. Which is of intrest to me, because I am interested in the bible, so there is much yet to learn about this.
I believe Consciousness is a " Spirit in man", placed there by God, it is the " Governor of behavior." Having no real location in the human body, its " Just there." Fitting like a glove. It is the real power behind our memory, emotions, intellect and so on.
Well I have no intention in swaying your value of whats worth discussing, those post I do not like, I simply don't post on them. I only join post that intrest me; that being said I'll still answer your questions:
Primordal man is any human before Adam, be it Neanderthal or Cromagnon. And there were plenty of them, and they survived for hundreds of thousands, perhaps into the millions of years. Which is of intrest to me, because I am interested in the bible, so there is much yet to learn about this.
I believe Consciousness is a " Spirit in man", placed there by God, it is the " Governor of behavior." Having no real location in the human body, its " Just there." Fitting like a glove. It is the real power behind our memory, emotions, intellect and so on.
Peace.
Immediately, you are rather contradicting yourself, or else you're uneducated about how advanced Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man actually were. In your first post, you stated the following:
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Originally Posted by Mickiel
When God gave Adam consciousness, it was then I believe civilization of humans began. I then consider these things as " Signs of Consciousness"- Civilization, agriculture, Language, Religion, science, transportation, Education and so on, none of which Primordal man displayed in a manner that we can trace. Which is perplexing to me.
Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man both made art, jewelry, weapons, used tools and fire, had language, and taught all these things to their children (education). They also had religious beliefs as evidenced by their burial rituals. Neanderthals were close enough to us that we could interbreed with them -- and we did.
So for you to say that you need all those things you listed in order to make a "real" human being, and then say that neither of those species of man displayed them is sheer ignorance. Go do some research on them, learn about them, and you'll see just how human they really were.
I believe Consciousness is a " Spirit in man", placed there by God, it is the " Governor of behavior." Having no real location in the human body, its " Just there." Fitting like a glove. It is the real power behind our memory, emotions, intellect and so on.
Peace.
In my opinion the concept of a spirit is the product of a pre-17th century understanding of the way the mind works. What we now know is attributable to the brain used to be attributed to a spirit.
There are a minority of neurologist who believe consciousness resides not with the brain itself, but instead within an electromagnetic field created by the brain. But even in those cases there is acknowledgement that the field is a naturalistic product of the brain, and not a supernatural spirit.
Immediately, you are rather contradicting yourself, or else you're uneducated about how advanced Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man actually were. In your first post, you stated the following:
Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man both made art, jewelry, weapons, used tools and fire, had language, and taught all these things to their children (education). They also had religious beliefs as evidenced by their burial rituals. Neanderthals were close enough to us that we could interbreed with them -- and we did.
So for you to say that you need all those things you listed in order to make a "real" human being, and then say that neither of those species of man displayed them is sheer ignorance. Go do some research on them, learn about them, and you'll see just how human they really were.
Well I hold no intrest in trading insults with you, but I understand your position. However, I think differently. In my view, Primordal man was not advanced, and they had plenty of time to advance. When a race of humans live 250,000 years with little or no change, in my view, that reveals something about their consciousness. I begin to think they had none, rather a high level of " Instinct", and from that they made their art, primitive weapons, tools ect... I totally disagree that they had religion, I certainly disagree with that.
I also totally disagree that we interbreeded with them, I believe they all died out before God created Adam, they were simply " Discontinued." Which makes me wonder why God even created them, I mean for what purpose?
I'm not sure where 'primordial man' is supposed to begin. I have seen quite a lot of archaeological evidence that palaeolithic man had culture, Art, language, undoubtedly, technology, clothing and red - painted burials indicating some thoughts about the body can't just STAY dead, can it? This is dated from 1.5 million yrs BP down to 100,000 yrs BP (I suppose that is the latest date terminology fad since BCE) so well predating the YE date of 9,000 BC (+/ - 4.000 years).
The Neolithic man was probably not that different from us in terms of consciousness. Their religious speculations were fertile and important.
Before the Palaeolithic I can't bring to mind any human groups that don't look like tribes of chimps who walk upright and dig for roots but there's this supposed DNA - marked migration or spread from africa out to asia and i suppose that's where the predecessors of Palaeolithic man must be found.
Anyone have any snippits of indications of pre Palaeolithic man having artefacts indicating what we would call a pretty well developed consciousness? (such terms are very broad since dogs and horses are conscious in a pretty limited way. I have watched dogs operate and you never saw such self - centred lack of consideration for anyone else outside a school playground.)
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-23-2010 at 08:06 AM..
In my opinion the concept of a spirit is the product of a pre-17th century understanding of the way the mind works. What we now know is attributable to the brain used to be attributed to a spirit.
There are a minority of neurologist who believe consciousness resides not with the brain itself, but instead within an electromagnetic field created by the brain. But even in those cases there is acknowledgement that the field is a naturalistic product of the brain, and not a supernatural spirit.
Well I believe God created the human Spirit, or Consciousness. Interesting though that some neurologist do not believe Consciousness resides in the brain, I agree with them. We are always " Looking outward", and the feeling is that we look outward from a " Space behind our eyes." So people naturally think that Consciousness exist within a space inside of our heads. But in reality, there is no space inside of a humans head, there is nothing inside of our heads other than physiological tissue of one sort or another.
I believe Consciousness is purely Spirit, which is why science cannot locate it.
Well I hold no intrest in trading insults with you, but I understand your position. However, I think differently. In my view, Primordal man was not advanced, and they had plenty of time to advance. When a race of humans live 250,000 years with little or no change, in my view, that reveals something about their consciousness. I begin to think they had none, rather a high level of " Instinct", and from that they made their art, primitive weapons, tools ect... I totally disagree that they had religion, I certainly disagree with that.
I'm simply stating a fact. You don't know much at all about Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man if you believe they were not human beings, and sentient just like modern human beings are. Art is an incredible indicator of intelligence and self-awareness. It's a distinctly human trait. So is the construction of weapons and tools. Sure, an ape will pick up a rock to smash something, but he's not constructing an axe or a hammer. As far as religion goes, it certainly existed in Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man (you DO realize that Cro-Magnon is our ancestor,right?) The very fact that they had burial rituals for their dead is proof that they had some sort of religious beliefs. You don't dress your dead husband in his best hides, decorate him with jewelry, and bury him with his weapons and favorite things if you don't think there's something going on after death.
Really, you need to educate yourself a little better on this subject before making snap decisions that humans of that time period were ignorant savages acting only on instinct.
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I also totally disagree that we interbreeded with them,
I believe they all died out before God created Adam, they were simply " Discontinued."
So, your deity made a mistake.
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Which makes me wonder why God even created them, I mean for what purpose?
He didn't create them any more than he created anything else. We evolved, everything living on this planet evolved, and any other living things in this universe also evolved.
I'm simply stating a fact. You don't know much at all about Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man if you believe they were not human beings, and sentient just like modern human beings are. .
I have not stated that I don't believe they were human, they certainly were human, but they were not like modernday humans, I certainly disagree with that. And they were not like Apes either, I do not believe humans to be continious with the idiot hiearchy of speechless apes. We are unique in our creation.
And I don't know much about this, which is why I am learning about it, it intrest me.
Peace.
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