Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There's this running/recurring thought of mine, that what if death isn't as big of a deal as we make it out to be and it was just a control mechanism to keep us enslaved to priotize safety and comfort over freedom and self actualization?
Covid really has got me thinking this too, we make such a big fuzz about how we're all gonna die someday, but yet big pharma is dependent on many new diseases being created and existing left and right
Yes fearing death is a primitive/innate behavior, but to some extent I feel like it is weaponized quite a bit by society.
In just about any industrialized society it makes sense keeping people alive as that's how you maintain stable production numbers, that's why maybe if death was taken more ligthtly the economy would collapse like crazy and the demand would be hard to meet
If you are a powerful person who is able to disseminate propaganda through an institution (for instance, religion) then you might see yourself as a shepherd managing livestock, only it's THINKING livestock and you can't lock 'em in a barn, so you need to control what they believe.
I can't think of a better way to get lots of people to consent to spend their entire lives laboring to enrich someone else, with little hope for security for themselves or their families, than to persuade them that:
- Any kind of life is better than being dead.
- Except that if you do all the right things and follow the program, you will get rewarded with heaven.
- You should accept your lot because the more you suffer and toil without complaint, the better a person you are.
- (My Mom believes this one) Suicide is the ultimate sin because you cannot ask for forgiveness once it's done.
Gotta find a way to get people to happily, beatifically comply with their own exploitation, somehow.
And this, by the by, is not coming from a left place or a right place....I have challenged anyone to find for me a large and populous society at any point in the known history of humankind where the premise was anything other than masses of laborers working to supply wealth to relatively parasitic "leaders" or "rulers." Doesn't matter if it was a King or Feudal lord, a Pharaoh, or a few megacorp CEOs after their original companies gobbled up all of the competition.
What interests me... We could automate so much of the labor, and then what? Will we then release the masses from the shackles of the machine? No, of course we won't. We will simply "create jobs" because every individual must justify their existence with "work." A human being's right to exist seems inextricably linked to our capacity to be "productive."
Our relationship with death has a lot to do with the fact that those who tell us what to believe have a lot to gain from making sure we don't see an exit sign, or place more value on our dignity or quality of life.
Don't get me wrong, I love life and being alive. I am fortunate enough to have many things to enjoy that really make it worthwhile and I have no desire to seek a premature end for myself. Though ideologically I support the notion of dignified assisted suicide for those in certain situations. (When it is not a permanent solution to a temporary problem, mainly.)
I just enjoy chewing on big ideas about how humanity has always been, or could be different...
A society's attitude towards death is a cultural derivative. Check out how the Asian culture(s) regard death. Very different from ours, or the western culture as a whole....
A society's attitude towards death is a cultural derivative. Check out how the Asian culture(s) regard death. Very different from ours, or the western culture as a whole....
If you are a powerful person who is able to disseminate propaganda through an institution (for instance, religion) then you might see yourself as a shepherd managing livestock, only it's THINKING livestock and you can't lock 'em in a barn, so you need to control what they believe.
I can't think of a better way to get lots of people to consent to spend their entire lives laboring to enrich someone else, with little hope for security for themselves or their families, than to persuade them that:
- Any kind of life is better than being dead.
- Except that if you do all the right things and follow the program, you will get rewarded with heaven.
- You should accept your lot because the more you suffer and toil without complaint, the better a person you are.
- (My Mom believes this one) Suicide is the ultimate sin because you cannot ask for forgiveness once it's done.
Gotta find a way to get people to happily, beatifically comply with their own exploitation, somehow.
And this, by the by, is not coming from a left place or a right place....I have challenged anyone to find for me a large and populous society at any point in the known history of humankind where the premise was anything other than masses of laborers working to supply wealth to relatively parasitic "leaders" or "rulers." Doesn't matter if it was a King or Feudal lord, a Pharaoh, or a few megacorp CEOs after their original companies gobbled up all of the competition.
What interests me... We could automate so much of the labor, and then what? Will we then release the masses from the shackles of the machine? No, of course we won't. We will simply "create jobs" because every individual must justify their existence with "work." A human being's right to exist seems inextricably linked to our capacity to be "productive."
Our relationship with death has a lot to do with the fact that those who tell us what to believe have a lot to gain from making sure we don't see an exit sign, or place more value on our dignity or quality of life.
Don't get me wrong, I love life and being alive. I am fortunate enough to have many things to enjoy that really make it worthwhile and I have no desire to seek a premature end for myself. Though ideologically I support the notion of dignified assisted suicide for those in certain situations. (When it is not a permanent solution to a temporary problem, mainly.)
I just enjoy chewing on big ideas about how humanity has always been, or could be different...
Sonic, you nailed it yet again. "too soon", etc
Productivity has risen so dramatically since the 1970s that if the minimum wage had kept up with it, it would be around $24/hr instead of $7.25 an hour. In fact back then some sociologists were predicting that by now we'd all be working 20 hours a week for the same money. So clearly there's a disconnect. The extra profits aren't going to workers. They are going to our corporate overlords and corrupt rulers. You're right, they'll just keep manufacturing jobs -- increasingly pointless ones, mainly -- just to keep us all busy.
I don't think the modest stipends some workers got during the pandemic got them used to being "lazy", it got them to understand how much leisure and time with family they were missing out on, and that they were being paid so little that it's not really worth it. Nothing gets you to reassess your life and priorities like some time to think -- no wonder the boss wants you back to work, and no excuses.
Productivity has risen so dramatically since the 1970s that if the minimum wage had kept up with it, it would be around $24/hr instead of $7.25 an hour. In fact back then some sociologists were predicting that by now we'd all be working 20 hours a week for the same money. So clearly there's a disconnect. The extra profits aren't going to workers. They are going to our corporate overlords and corrupt rulers. You're right, they'll just keep manufacturing jobs -- increasingly pointless ones, mainly -- just to keep us all busy.
I don't think the modest stipends some workers got during the pandemic got them used to being "lazy", it got them to understand how much leisure and time with family they were missing out on, and that they were being paid so little that it's not really worth it. Nothing gets you to reassess your life and priorities like some time to think -- no wonder the boss wants you back to work, and no excuses.
And furthermore, let's look at how it is handled when someone is in the end times of their lifespan in a way that isn't in anybody's control... How many greedy entities stand ready, hungry to snatch up their life's accumulated savings lest it be passed down to another generation?
I know that she did have the choice, but my Grandmother spent years battling cancer before she was finally told that she was not strong enough to withstand another surgery, radiation treatment, or round of chemo. And all of it was horrific that she went through. The last years of her life were constant pain and suffering, and all of the medical interventions cost a fortune and in the end, didn't save her, as of course she was old and mortal as everyone knew. There was nothing left for her to see or do, no great-grandchild she waited to see born, no goal left unmet, no reason for her to need to fight so hard. But she did.
Of course, she did hold the view that life is always preferable to death and that all living things must fight to remain living. It was her choice. But I just think that if we accepted, or even embraced, the idea that death was there to take the pain away, to take us into a peaceful ending, if at least we saw it as natural which of course it is... The end times of one's life could perhaps be spent more mindfully and with less suffering and futile struggle.
I personally don't want resources wasted trying to keep me alive if I'm in my 80s and diagnosed with something like cancer. I don't want to burden my loved ones, and I'd rather that my money went to them than to hospitals and medical providers. I don't want to fight and struggle, losing more and more of my dignity and autonomy, on a slow descent that inevitably leads to my end. If that's where I'm going then I would much rather find a way to do so painlessly on my own terms, having said my goodbyes, and hopefully with excellent drugs that ease my passing.
But hell, I was a goth kid once, so maybe I just have a slightly different way of thinking about death!
I definitely believe though, that if a person is suicidal and not old and not terminally ill, then there should be a period of time, that is at least several years long, where they are receiving counseling and their wish to die is documented and they know that if they reach the end of that span and still consistently desire it, then they'll get the ticket out. I think that if something like that existed, maybe they'd at least give themselves a chance to find a reason to live in the meanwhile, rather than hitting a desperate moment and seeking a relatively messy way to accomplish the task on their own.
There's this running/recurring thought of mine, that what if death isn't as big of a deal as we make it out to be and it was just a control mechanism to keep us enslaved to priotize safety and comfort over freedom and self actualization?
I always say I don't fear death, but have a healthy respect for the process of dying.
I don't think death itself is that big a deal. I don't recall the oblivion before my birth, and don't expect to be perturbed by the oblivion after. Indeed, the prospect is a comfort to me. Endpoints are good. At least I know this pandemic will end, that way if in no other!
Much of the fear of death is manufactured and a learned helplessness. Fear of death promotes a one foot in front of the other approach to life, putting in your time faithfully because of the notion that it will be made up to you in some idyllic afterlife. That keeps you from working / agitating to make THIS life any better, which is just what the boss wants from you: to work hard, long hours for as little $ and benefits as he can get away with paying you.
And since collectively, bosses pay for politicians to get elected to do their bidding, you can bet that pretty much regardless of party, that's what your leadership at every level also wants, more or less. Shut up, work, don't complain, put off any kind of decent quality of life until you're dead.
There's this running/recurring thought of mine, that what if death isn't as big of a deal as we make it out to be and it was just a control mechanism to keep us enslaved to priotize safety and comfort over freedom and self actualization?
Covid really has got me thinking this too, we make such a big fuzz about how we're all gonna die someday, but yet big pharma is dependent on many new diseases being created and existing left and right
Yes fearing death is a primitive/innate behavior, but to some extent I feel like it is weaponized quite a bit by society.
Not that big of a deal? What could possibly be a bigger deal to each and every one of us than our own death? I suppose some can feel that "safety and comfort" in believing religious afterlife, but I believe that those are fairytales, and have none of that comfort and safety. I think dead is DEAD.
That said, what freedom and self actualization do you believe people could achieve if they feared death less? What would people do differently? There's lots an individual can decide to do on their own, but society doesn't stand in the way of that, other than the other sure thing, which is taxes.
Is the fear of death, through say covid lockdowns, enslaving people more than religion telling people how to live/behave/think to be promised "eternal life"?
I just know there's not enough time on this planet to do all the things I would like to do, my misspent youth is gone, and I'm trying to figure out how to make the rest of what I have left not anti-climactic...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
