Airport speed trap (Phoenix, Tempe: photo radar, taxis, dangerous)

[pr0zac]

Originally Posted by kdog

Apparently you're not familiar with the concept of conditioned-response. In order to stop speeders, you have to change their basic behavior. To do that, you need a "stimulus of some significance". A uniformed cop on the side of the road will slow them down until they're out of sight, then they'll speed up again. Write them up a few times and they will change their behavior.

Hook, line, sinker. You've fallen for the ostensible rationale behind disguising a uniformed officer as a groundskeeper.

Posting a uniformed cop slows down virtually ALL traffic to legal limits. Posting an undercover cop slows down NONE of the traffic. But hey, hopefully sometime in the future when they visit the airport again next year, that small .2% of the people actually issued citations will be conditioned to slow down.

The only reason why this may affect better-than-expected results is all the air time this tactic has been getting in the media. Beyond that though, I refer you to my previous reply in this thread.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by pr0zac

Hook, line, sinker. You've fallen for the ostensible rationale behind disguising a uniformed officer as a groundskeeper.

Posting a uniformed cop slows down virtually ALL traffic to legal limits. Posting an undercover cop slows down NONE of the traffic. But hey, hopefully sometime in the future when they visit the airport again next year, that small .2% of the people actually issued citations will be conditioned to slow down.

You're overlooking two thing. First, most people don't speed excessively. Your post actually supports that contention by saying only .2% of the people are issued citations. So slowing down ALL traffic is not the goal, stopping the worst offenders is. Secondly, while only a small fraction of cars are pulled over, the sight of a car pulled over by a cop car with lights flashing has a LOT more impact than does uniformed cop on the side of the road doing nothing. People will be on their best behavior when they know that traffic laws in an area are highly enforced. Having a cop on the side of the road doing nothing is not an indicator of any such enforcement.

[las vegas drunk]

The OP forgot to post the article. Here it is:

Phoenix police catch speeders at Sky Harbor Airport

[pr0zac]

Originally Posted by kdog

You're overlooking two thing. First, most people don't speed excessively. Your post actually supports that contention by saying only .2% of the people are issued citations. So slowing down ALL traffic is not the goal, stopping the worst offenders is. Secondly, while only a small fraction of cars are pulled over, the sight of a car pulled over by a cop car with lights flashing has a LOT more impact than does uniformed cop on the side of the road doing nothing. People will be on their best behavior when they know that traffic laws in an area are highly enforced. Having a cop on the side of the road doing nothing is not an indicator of any such enforcement.

I can see where this is leading, and you're attempting to drag us down into an argument where we debate irrelevant minutia while completely ignoring the larger problem: bureaucratic management at the upper ranks of almost all police agencies in America.

Granted, posting an undercover cop on the side of the road might or might not condition people to slow down the next time they visit the airport. However, the broader issue here, and one that everybody seems to be missing, is that we're being policed by a system that caters to a suite of processes rather than to the people.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by pr0zac

I can see where this is leading, and you're attempting to drag us down into an argument where we debate irrelevant minutia while completely ignoring the larger problem: bureaucratic management at the upper ranks of almost all police agencies in America.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was a thread discussing an airport speed trap. My bad.

[Kimballette]

Originally Posted by kdog

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was a thread discussing an airport speed trap. My bad.

See, here'w where you made a wrong turn, kdog- you're trying to respond with logical, coherent facts that are on topic.

[Zippyman]

I think the speed limit is artificially low in the area they've put the officer - there aren't any pedestrians there, and there's no merging traffic. That said, the fact that they decided to enforce the law there one whole time since I've lived in Phoenix (4+ years!) really points out the priority (collecting fines).

The whole "cops dressing up as utility workers" thing is patently silly - It undermines any respect for the cops.

Wear a uniform, and drive a marked car - or don't hassle drivers who refuse to pull over.

[slackjaw]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

I think the speed limit is artificially low in the area they've put the officer - there aren't any pedestrians there, and there's no merging traffic. That said, the fact that they decided to enforce the law there one whole time since I've lived in Phoenix (4+ years!) really points out the priority (collecting fines).

Actually there is plenty of merging traffic there from all the shuttle buses with poor rear visibility pulling to and from the curb.

The article also mentions that they occasionally set up speed traps there because of ongoing problem, so the one time claim doesn't hold water. What do you go out there every day for the last four years to check?

The whole "cops dressing up as utility workers" thing is patently silly - It undermines any respect for the cops. Wear a uniform, and drive a marked car - or don't hassle drivers who refuse to pull over.

I can respect being clever to catch people breaking the law, and they are using marked vehicles with uniformed officers to actually pull people over.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by slackjaw

Actually there is plenty of merging traffic there from all the shuttle buses with poor rear visibility pulling to and from the curb.

The article also mentions that they occasionally set up speed traps there because of ongoing problem, so the one time claim doesn't hold water. What do you go out there every day for the last four years to check?

Actually... you're wrong, there is no merging traffic near that spot. I used the airport a couple of times a week for a couple of years... so yes - I claim "expert" status on the regularity of enforcement there.

It's possible I wasn't there when they set up previous traps, but it's also possible the author of the article mindlessly quoted the police schill about the frequency of enforcement - just like they exaggerated the danger to "pedestrians" - there aren't any pedestrians there.

[Kimballette]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

...the author of the article mindlessly quoted the police schill about the frequency of enforcement...

"Shill?" Rather derogatory term, dontcha think? Just because you disagree with a ploicy, is there any need to amp up an emotional response to that degree?