Phoenix School of Law (Page: loan, attorney, promotional)

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by observer53

I am not here to argue with you. We all understand simple math. Do you actually KNOW anyone who teaches there? I do. Do you KNOW any of these students who were holding out for higher paying jobs and thereby lowering the other schools' job placement rates, or are you just guessing? I'll guess guessing. So long as they are working in a field that requires the law degree, how much it pays is not the question. The OP wants to be a prosecutor. Entry level prosecutor jobs are not the higher paying ones in the legal profession. THere's an awful lot of prosecutors (and other lawyers, for that matter) working around here who never saw the inside of ASU's law school.

So knowing a teacher and students somehow trumps common sense and basics like being established in a community and having a reputation? Do you know the average starting salary for Phoenix Law School? Do you know how many firms actually interview on campus there? Oh right, you don't but you will have no problem telling someone that going to PLS provides the same opportunities as someone going to ASU Law School. Why don't you find that information out and post them and compare their avg starting salary and number of firms interviewing on campus to that of ASU and UofA. That means a lot more than knowing teachers. Yeah, and a lot more of those prosecuters never saw the inside of Phoenix Law School either. Also, how do you know they will want to be a prosecuter when they are done. What if they change their mind and desire a high pay corporate job or perhaps they want to have more selection with regard to their job.

Originally Posted by observer53

ABA doesn't accredit diploma mills, and I don't think they count getting jobs in a supermarket or otherwise outside the legal field.

Yes they do! There are mediocre law schools...even ABA accredited ones.

get good clerking/internship experience second and third year

Uh yeah, and how do you think they are going to get that coming out of PSL considering they have no reputation nor a huge alumni?

Sure, a top 50 law school would be a great thing to do, but the costs are much higher, and neither you nor I are going to be paying back the OP's loans.

And you aren't going to give the OP a job when she can't find one because she went to PSL. At least by going to ASU, you are assuring yourself a job.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

although that's not always the case ..... some newer schools will aggressively offer financial aid in an effort to draw in the top level students .... willing to take that hit early in an effort to get students in who will pass, get hired and provide good statistices for the school and help them get onto the rankings

there is a lot of unknown and uncertainty and it's by far a tough decision .... but just because a new program is being aggressive with aid doesn't make it a bad program

how do the median undergraduate GPAs & LSAT scores stack up?

student-faculty ratio?

credentials of faculty?

definitely need to peel the onion back a bit

Add to that

Average starting salary of graduating class - sorry observer, but people from ASU and Arizona also go into public law so to assume the average starting salary could be 30K less because everyone went into public law at PLS is assinine or if they did, you have to question why they did, did they do so out of their own choosing or were they forced to because they didn't get interviews at big firms in corporate law. Generally speaking, the avg starting salary is highest at the top ranked schools for a reason.

Number of firms that interviewed on campus

Diversity of firms that interviewed on campus (Where are they located, Field)

Breakdown of graduating class with regard to field

If a law school can't provide basic information like that, don't bother applying. Trust me, if these numbers were good, they would have no problem putting them on every brochure they have. Diploma mills hide information that could be perceived as being negative such as a low average starting salary relative to other schools. This is BASIC information that is available annually from reputable law schools that is published in guides like the Princeton Reviews guide below

http://www.amazon.com/Schools-Gradua...8073794&sr=8-1

[Romeosgal]

Hey Monomunky! Phoenix School of Law's reputation is very good in the legal community - and getting better every day. If you want to go into the public sector to practice law - this is a great school for it. So many students have gotten jobs (with the help of PSL's career services) in government offices - as well as in the public sector . The overall job placement rate is 97% according to their website. The bar pass rate is very high, too. I am certainly happy that I chose this school. I've talked to students at ASU who have said that they don't have a bar prep program like PSL, nor do they get the interaction with the faculty as they do at PSL. Big factor - I just heard that there's a huge debt forgiveness/discount program with government loans if you practice law in the public sector. That's something to look into. I would highly recommend PSL. By the way - the school is full accredited and approved by the ABA. The Dean is even a Harvard Law School grad!

[monomunky]

thank you, Romeosgal. You are who I needed to hear from That debt forgiveness program is a major reason why I even applied to PSL. I have been in contact with a few people in different government offices (mainly public defenders,lol) who work with PSL graduates and say that the biggest obstacle is trying to explain to people that it's not the university of Phoenix How long have you been at PSL and what year are you?


Also, I had to add that today, October 26th, we were under tornado warnings in my town all morning long! This weather is insane and will not be missed at all! It is now in the forties (degrees) and windy/rainy. I'm moving, law degree or not

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Romeosgal

Hey Monomunky! Phoenix School of Law's reputation is very good in the legal community - and getting better every day. If you want to go into the public sector to practice law - this is a great school for it. So many students have gotten jobs (with the help of PSL's career services) in government offices - as well as in the public sector . The overall job placement rate is 97% according to their website. The bar pass rate is very high, too. I am certainly happy that I chose this school. I've talked to students at ASU who have said that they don't have a bar prep program like PSL, nor do they get the interaction with the faculty as they do at PSL. Big factor - I just heard that there's a huge debt forgiveness/discount program with government loans if you practice law in the public sector. That's something to look into. I would highly recommend PSL. By the way - the school is full accredited and approved by the ABA. The Dean is even a Harvard Law School grad!

Why don't you tell the entire story? Public law jobs aka DA's office, Public Defender's office are the bottom of the barrel in terms of law jobs. They pay nothing particularly in Phoenix. They offer no job security. They are the type of jobs that people from reputable schools avoid. It's not like working for the DA's office in NYC or LA or being a clerk for a Supreme Court justice. You can go to any law school in the country and get these type of jobs. Now it makes sense. They have a 97% job placement because it's all in these types of jobs. Well no wonder Phoenix Law School won't publish it's average first year starting salary.

And a prep course is not going to make one pass the bar. I used to hear the same b.s. in medicine. They thought a particular medical school or residency will prepare you better and it's hogwash. It comes down to individual effort and how much a person prepares on their own. No program or prep course can make you pass the bar or a board exam or a state licensing exam. It doesn't matter if you go to ASU, UofA, Harvard or PSL, if you don't put in the time, you will fail the bar.

[Kimballette]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Public law jobs aka DA's office, Public Defender's office are the bottom of the barrel in terms of law jobs. They pay nothing particularly in Phoenix. They offer no job security. They are the type of jobs that people from reputable schools avoid. It's not like working for the DA's office in NYC or LA or being a clerk for a Supreme Court justice. You can go to any law school in the country and get these type of jobs.

Originally Posted by monomunky

I am not interested in BigLaw but instead plan to go into the public sector and prosecutor's office.

I think you've overlooked your audience here. The o/p wants to work in the public sector, and asked for feedback with that information factored into the equation. As such, your opinions about the wisdom of choosing that area of law are irrelevant. Your post is nothing more than a rant against the school she asked about, which doesn't add anything to the discussion she requested. You wouldn't choose to attend there, good for you. But for this person, at this time, this school makes sense. I'm not quite sure why your responses here are so impassioned and angry.

[Romeosgal]

Oh my gosh... you'll love the weather here. Today, it is just beautiful. And it will be through to late April!

I've been at PSL for over a year... I'm a 2L. There are a lot of scholarships available that you may want to check into. Just call Admissions and they'll let you know what you could qualify for. Good luck!

[The_Cadillac_Lawyer]

The misconceptions, myths, and folk tales are amazing in this thread. i love how someone who has NO first hand knowledge of the school, its faculty or staff can pass judgment, then tell you what you should be doing.


Bottom line, PSL is a great school for those who need to attend a part-time institution (being the only one in the state).
What kills me the most, is that people think everyone is cut from the same cloth as themselves. I'm 34 years old, and there is no way in hell I'd want to sit in a classroom full of young arrogant inexperienced adults who have no real world experience yet want to tell you "how it is."

[nickw252]

If the OP is still considering PSL she should read this article which was recently published:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/bu...m1myW/k965GtCg

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by trudawg

I'm 34 years old, and there is no way in hell I'd want to sit in a classroom full of young arrogant inexperienced adults who have no real world experience yet want to tell you "how it is."

That's a pretty shallow reason for picking a law school. You don't want to attend a top law school because it has young students. Just because someone is young, it doesn't mean they aren't responsible and hard working. Furthermore, you don't require prior job experience in another field to become a successful lawyer.

I don't have to attend Phoenix Law School to understand basic concepts of how firms hire and where they hire. What I'm saying is fairly basic that every law student understand. Are you really disputing the fact that firms hire based on the reputation of a law school and that your chances of securing a job are increased by attending the best law school you can?

This is an article published by the New York Times, note I said the New York Times, not some obscure journal I found online through a Google search that so many use when trying to contradict a point. If the New York Times is publishing this, I would strongly consider reading it. It confirms a lot of what I said above

You might ask why I'm passionately disputing this point, how does it impact me? The reason is I know people who have gone to diploma mills like this and have come out with a lot of debt and no real job prospects. I know you are already there and I hope you find a great job but to aspiring applicants, I have two words: "Buyer Beware" Going to a school like this could wreck one's future by enabling them to amass an enormous amount of debt on the grim or even false promise of successful job placement. If I'm wrong about this school, I would be more than happy to be.

Here are excerpts from that article

So the glut of diplomas, the dearth of jobs and those candy-coated employment statistics have now yielded a crop of furious young lawyers who say they mortgaged their future under false pretenses. You can sample their rage, and their admonitions, on what are known as law school scam blogs, with names like Shilling Me Softly, Subprime JD and Rose Colored Glasses.


Apparently, there is no shortage of 22-year-olds who think that law school is the perfect place to wait out a lousy economy and the gasoline that fuels this system — federally backed student loans — is still widely available. But the legal market has always been obsessed with academic credentials, and today, few students except those with strong grade-point averages at top national and regional schools can expect a come-hither from a deep-pocketed firm. Nearly everyone else is in for a struggle.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/bu...m1myW/k965GtCg