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You must mean the "new math". The reason the team is in trouble is that they cannot sell tickets, at least enough to make the team profitable.
I have been in several communities and seen sports teams shoved down the throats of it's citizen's. I think this is one of them.
Taxpayers can only afford so much.
Genius, I must be compared to the way you think.
I agree... One of the options is to hire a professional booking agent for a fraction of the price, to make sure the arena is being used and generating revenue in west gate.
If a booking agent booked anywhere between 10 to 30 additional events a year the revenue generated would be much higher than what the Coyotes generate inside and outside the arena...... and you wouldn't have a Hockey teams loosing millions of dollars on top of that.
I don't understand why people can't grasp the concept that, although the Coyotes might bring some people and revenue to Westgate, it's merely a fraction of what jobbing.com could potentially bring in every year, if they hosted events that people actually came to, in which case we would be better off without the Coyotes.
To say that getting rid of the Coyotes would be a waste of the arena is absolutely backwards, considering the arena is often only half full and that is with heavily discounted tickets....AND the team looses 30 million a season which is now on the tax payers shoulders.
I am sorry to the Ice hockey fans that don't want to see the Coyotes go because they enjoy ice hockey, and I am sorry to the current city council who doesn't want to admit they have failed miserably, but no one here likes ice hockey and that's the biggest problem. The sooner we get rid of the hockey team and use the arena for something people want to see, the sooner this will all be over.
I agree... One of the options is to hire a professional booking agent for a fraction of the price, to make sure the arena is being used and generating revenue in west gate.
If a booking agent booked anywhere between 10 to 30 additional events a year the revenue generated would be much higher than what the Coyotes generate inside and outside the arena...... and you wouldn't have a Hockey teams loosing millions of dollars on top of that.
I don't understand why people can't grasp the concept that, although the Coyotes might bring some people and revenue to Westgate, it's merely a fraction of what jobbing.com could potentially bring in every year, if they hosted events that people actually came to, in which case we would be better off without the Coyotes.
To say that getting rid of the Coyotes would be a waste of the arena is absolutely backwards, considering the arena is often only half full and that is with heavily discounted tickets....AND the team looses 30 million a season which is now on the tax payers shoulders.
I am sorry to the Ice hockey fans that don't want to see the Coyotes go because they enjoy ice hockey, and I am sorry to the current city council who doesn't want to admit they have failed miserably, but no one here likes ice hockey and that's the biggest problem. The sooner we get rid of the hockey team and use the arena for something people want to see, the sooner this will all be over.
I think it will all be over this week. The council has the votes to OK the contract. The thing to do now is hope the new ownership can succeed where others have failed.
I think it will all be over this week. The council has the votes to OK the contract. The thing to do now is hope the new ownership can succeed where others have failed.
The city will vote "yes" unless the citizens show up to the vote and make some noise. The problem is that most of the citizens who are familiar with the situation are Coyotes fans. The fact that the Coyotes are so irrelevant is working in favor of a yes vote.
However no one cares about the Coyotes and thus they are unaware of this ridiculous socialist deal.
If you aren't a supporter of this crap tell everyone you know to be at the city council vote because the councilors will vote for whatever the popular opinion is because they want to keep their jobs.
I agree... One of the options is to hire a professional booking agent for a fraction of the price, to make sure the arena is being used and generating revenue in west gate.
If a booking agent booked anywhere between 10 to 30 additional events a year the revenue generated would be much higher than what the Coyotes generate inside and outside the arena...... and you wouldn't have a Hockey teams loosing millions of dollars on top of that.
I don't understand why people can't grasp the concept that, although the Coyotes might bring some people and revenue to Westgate, it's merely a fraction of what jobbing.com could potentially bring in every year, if they hosted events that people actually came to, in which case we would be better off without the Coyotes.
To say that getting rid of the Coyotes would be a waste of the arena is absolutely backwards, considering the arena is often only half full and that is with heavily discounted tickets....AND the team looses 30 million a season which is now on the tax payers shoulders.
I am sorry to the Ice hockey fans that don't want to see the Coyotes go because they enjoy ice hockey, and I am sorry to the current city council who doesn't want to admit they have failed miserably, but no one here likes ice hockey and that's the biggest problem. The sooner we get rid of the hockey team and use the arena for something people want to see, the sooner this will all be over.
Imagine if some of these funds were used for education or increased environmental controls. Our area would be much better off due to some attractiveness. This is why I have always been wary of public-private partnerships like this.
Imagine if some of these funds were used for education or increased environmental controls. Our area would be much better off due to some attractiveness. This is why I have always been wary of public-private partnerships like this.
Do I ever agree.
Public education and healthcare for the needy are on the chopping block and the city of Glendale can somehow find millions of dollars to save a professional hockey team.
I like the fact that this metropolitan area has all four professional sports franchises that are housed in beautiful state-of-the-art stadiums but there comes a time for priorities.
I would rather spend all that money on saving a few lives with transplants, creating a few jobs, and ensuring that all children receive a decent education.
Imagine if some of these funds were used for education or increased environmental controls. Our area would be much better off due to some attractiveness. This is why I have always been wary of public-private partnerships like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jolt
Do I ever agree.
Public education and healthcare for the needy are on the chopping block and the city of Glendale can somehow find millions of dollars to save a professional hockey team.
I like the fact that this metropolitan area has all four professional sports franchises that are housed in beautiful state-of-the-art stadiums but there comes a time for priorities.
I would rather spend all that money on saving a few lives with transplants, creating a few jobs, and ensuring that all children receive a decent education.
Then come to the City Council vote tomorrow night at 7:30 and show that you are against this. Hell, come if you even aren't from Glendale because us residents are going to be out numbered but Coyotes fans from all over the place, trying to convince out city council how to spend our money.
This is an open letter to ALL arizona hockey fans fromt eh president of the team. He's urging them to go to the council meeting. Why should it be someone who lives outside of Glendales business to go and say they should be spending money on this team. The team themselves are telling people to go and force the city to give them millions upon millions. What an underhanded display
The CoG isn't going to pay Holzinger to buy the team. Holzinger will still absorb all costs associated with operating the team and managing the stadium.
They will work out a new lease agreement - which will be the inflow of $$ into the city (or rent if you will in your example)
The only concern with the profitability of the Coyotes is with the buyer, Holzinger.
He's ran his #s and said for me to make it work I can only pay you X amount.
The city then looks at other ways to raise money to help fill the gap.
One such way is to charge a parking fee for the games.
A second way is to create a special taxing district of the businesses in Westgate.
They need to work mainly with Ellman on both of these concessions.
None of those options are completely ideal .... but all are still infinitely better than getting zero revenue from the tenant, taking over the management of the property, having your tax receipts direct from the events cease, having your tax receipts from the businesses that get a boost from the events dip (or cease if they go out of business).
There is no magical, perfect solution that will make everyone happy.
But this by far is the best potential outcome of any realistic options
Finger Lakes is either ignorant or lying or both. Finger Lakes would seem to be a person that is a fanatical follower of the hockey team and therefore would pay any price to keep them. None of the numbers or scenarios Finger Lakes has presented are even similar to the actual numbers involved in the agreements between the Coyotes and Glendale.
As of today Glendale pays about $12 Million Dollars per year for the arena bonds and debt servicing. The Coyotes contribute between $4 Million and $6 Million Dollars per year towards that payment depending on a couple of per ticket sold variables in the lease. The difference between the Coyotes rent payments and the $12 Million Dollar bond payment is filled in by taxes paid at Westgate throughout the year.
This is already a shaky foundation because the Coyotes are not popular. The Coyotes do not create a economic stimulus. Westgate is not a thriving area because of the Coyotes. The attendance figures and sales tax receipts prove this over and over again. Letting the Coyotes leave is equal to giving up around $6 Million Dollars per year.
Now in order to keep the team Glendale is going to take on another $197 Million Dollars in debt. Read that again. To protect $6 Million Dollars per year in rent the city is going to pay $197 Million Dollars.
It would be bad to lose the Coyotes and their rent payments but it makes no sense to pay $197 Million Dollars to keep them. If the team left the city would still have the opportunity to run the arena like they do in Kansas City. The Sprint Center in KC is a good example of how an arena can be run without an NBA team or NHL team.
It would be much better to get zero revenue from your tenant when the other option is paying your tenant $197 Million Dollars so the tenant will keep making his $6 Million Dollar rent payment.
Holzinger does NOT absorb all costs associated with operating the team and managing the stadium. The city pays him $17 Million Dollars per year to manage the stadium. Which is far more than that service is worth.
Anyone who tells you that the city should spend $197 Million Dollars so they do not lose $6 Million dollars is a liar or a crazy fan. Glendale made a bad choice to build the arena. They made a worse choice thinking that a hockey team would be a legit draw in the desert. Now instead of admitting their mistake and cutting their losses they are going to throw good money after bad.
Then come to the City Council vote tomorrow night at 7:30 and show that you are against this. Hell, come if you even aren't from Glendale because us residents are going to be out numbered but Coyotes fans from all over the place, trying to convince out city council how to spend our money.
The hockey fanatics make me sick! They bus them in and then we have to sit through 3 hours of public comment from people who would sell their own mother if that was the difference between the team staying or leaving. The worst is when they start talking about how the team leaving would mean the death of Westgate. As if they have degrees Urban Planning and Economics. They just want to watch men hit a puck with sticks. Westgate exists in spite of the Coyotes not because of them.
I think the council has already decided how they are going to spend our money. They are going to give it away so they don't have to admit how stupid it was to build an arena for a hockey team. They should all be arrested for fraud!
Hockey's Future's been discussing the Yotes bankruptcy for a long time (38K posts and counting). Granted the site has a huge Winnipeg/Hamilton bias, but pretty much everyone agrees that the proposed sale & lease terms are an utter sweetheart deal for Hulsizer and a trainwreck for the city of Glendale. Lots of people also think the terms are generous to the point where "It appears to grant an unconstitutional subsidy to the Coyotes." under Arizona law according to the Goldwater folks.
The parking agreement is in line with similar venues, but the $17 million a year in management fees is the big 'it's not a subsidy subsidy'. Going rate for that is somewhere in the $1-$2 million per year range for comprable arenas.
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