How to beat a totally BS speeding ticket in court? (Carefree: lawyer, home) - Phoenix area - Arizona (AZ) - City-Data Forum

Rick Lee · 02-10-2011, 09:31 AM

Please don't respond if you're going to tell me to rollover and pay. I wasn't speeding and I don't believe the cop even used his radar gun.

I was about a half mile from my house, on the way to my gym. I had been first in line at a long red light on Jomax, made a left turn onto Tatum (northbound) and a was lit up by the time I got into third gear. It was a bike cop on the other side of the road. I saw him and didn't slow down because I didn't think I was speeding (45 zone). My detector didn't make a peep. I pulled over immediately and he brought his radar gun up to the window and it read 62mph. He said he saw me at 63, but locked me at 62. I find this impossible, since I was still accelerating when I saw him and didn't slow down until his lights went on because I wasn't in a hurry and didn't think I was speeding. My detector has never let a bogey get by and, in fact, it picked up several other bike cops running Ka-band on Carefree Hwy. later in my trip. So I know it's in good working order.

I drive an old, air-cooled boxer engine car, the engine was stone cold when I started it, had been running maybe three minutes at the time I was stopped, and so it was not at operating temp and so I wasn't getting on the throttle. Cop said I could do online traffic school and there'd be no fine or points. Whoa! That sounded generous. If I didn't want to do that, the fine was $201, some more BS admin. fees and a few points.

So I checked when I got home and the online school is $300. Are you kidding me? Just use a gun and let me feel less robbed. When I did CA online traffic school about three yrs. ago, it was $19.

Anyway, I think I'd be better off taking my chances in court that the cop doesn't show or, if he does, arguing my case. I'll go back today and take measurement and photos. But I just don't speed on that stretch of road, since I always hit the red light at Dynamite and my car is always cold so close to leaving my house. Just no point in speeding there. I really want to know how many other people that cop wrote for 62 before he got me yesterday.

keninaz · 02-10-2011, 10:03 AM

Just be warned that I fought a ticket in another community here in AZ a few years ago.
The officer showed up and my wife and I told them my cruise control on our then 2 year old car had been locked on 70 in a 65 zone for almost 20 miles and it was flat, not downhill so the speed was constant.
The officer said he clocked me at 82! He wrote the ticket for 75 or 10 over in a 65 and said he was doing me a favor.
The judge smiled and told me that I had already admitted in court to speeding (70 in a 65) and that I was lucky that the officer did not write me for the 82 like he should have.
What a joke! There is (or was) no appeal from this joke of justice. I had to pay the fine as the fine was cheaper than going to traffic school by far. you may find that too now. And do yourself a favor and don't get smart with the judge or they may well hold you in contempt and fine you for that. I have seen it done.
I had not had a ticket in 20 years and have not had one since.
Frustrating? You bet.
But I think more and more communities are writing tickets to increase revenue. They write them so that the fines are below the costs of admin and traffic school costs so that people will just pay the fine.
Yes what they are doing in many cases is unlawful but prove it.

GreenScoutII · 02-10-2011, 10:10 AM

Yeah, speed limit enforcement is all about generating revenue. Period.

In my experience, taking the ticket to court is a he said/he said kind of deal and the judge will almost always side with the police officer. The court might offer to let you plead to a lesser offense, but the fine will typically stay the same.

If it is a moral issue, as in you weren't speeding, then explain your side to the judge and hope for the best.

Rick Lee · 02-10-2011, 10:13 AM

Thanks Ken. But you admitted guilt, so you killed your case right there. I didn't admit to anything when the cop stopped me, but also didn't argue while we were blocking traffic. If it comes to arguing my case, I'll ask the cop if he'd agree that I was polite and cooperative during the stop. I'll then explain that I live around the corner, had no reason or desire to speed there, coming up on another red light and have a very clean record. I don't know that I want to get into challenging the cop's radar gun, wrong though I think he was. I don't understand why it's not considered perjury for a cop to write you for a lower speed than he clocked you at. If they can lie "in your favor" to encourage you to pay, what can't they do?

Rick Lee · 02-10-2011, 10:16 AM

BTW, when I used to go to traffic court in VA, if I didn't outright win a dismissal, I always got a hefty discount in fine and points for showing up in a suit and speaking native English. Back there, everyone who wasn't an eyesore or insult to the court and cop got a huge break for showing up. And for my very first ticket in PA, the cops cut sweet deals right there in the courthouse to avoid going before the judge a few min. later.

AndroidAZ · 02-10-2011, 10:24 AM

At the worst, if you show up in court and the judge rules the ticket is valid, the judge may still give you the option of doing the traffic class online.

How fast do you think you were going? Car speedometers can be inaccurate, and I tend to use my GPS to tell me my speed.

The way I figure it is it all evens out. You probably speeded at other times and never got a ticket, so this one is a way of getting karma for the other ones. Think of it as a road tax and feel better about it.

Rick Lee · 02-10-2011, 10:30 AM

I know my speedo is off, but it's off in the other direction. I've measured it with my GPS out in the desert and the speedo always reads about 8% above the GPS speed. I wasn't watching my speed yesterday, but certainly wasn't hammering my cold engine when I wasn't in a hurry and was coming up on another red light.

It doesn't matter that I've sped before without getting caught. I'm not paying this without a fight. It's a BS ticket. How would you like to get a cite for underage drinking when you're 35 and the cop says it's for all the times you did it under 21 and didn't get caught?

AndroidAZ · 02-10-2011, 10:37 AM

If it really matters that much to you, I suggest you contact a lawyer to fight for you in court on this. If you want a referral, pm me and I can recommend a lawyer I know.

Otherwise it's a case of he said / she said, and the cop will always have more credibility in that case.

Good luck.

keninaz · 02-10-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Thanks Ken. But you admitted guilt, so you killed your case right there. I didn't admit to anything when the cop stopped me, but also didn't argue while we were blocking traffic. If it comes to arguing my case, I'll ask the cop if he'd agree that I was polite and cooperative during the stop. I'll then explain that I live around the corner, had no reason or desire to speed there, coming up on another red light and have a very clean record. I don't know that I want to get into challenging the cop's radar gun, wrong though I think he was. I don't understand why it's not considered perjury for a cop to write you for a lower speed than he clocked you at. If they can lie "in your favor" to encourage you to pay, what can't they do?

I admitted to 5 over, which is not normally ticketable in AZ on state highways and they know it. The judge was just being a smart ass.
Fact is the cop has a badge and is sort of part of the court system.
In most cases you are wasting your time fighting.

Ponderosa · 02-10-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I know my speedo is off, but it's off in the other direction. I've measured it with my GPS out in the desert and the speedo always reads about 8% above the GPS speed. I wasn't watching my speed yesterday, but certainly wasn't hammering my cold engine when I wasn't in a hurry and was coming up on another red light.

It doesn't matter that I've sped before without getting caught. I'm not paying this without a fight. It's a BS ticket. How would you like to get a cite for underage drinking when you're 35 and the cop says it's for all the times you did it under 21 and didn't get caught?

The cops can say what they want and the vast majority of them are dishonest in court. A similar thing happened to my wife a few months ago. Stopped her with a totally bogus radar "reading". She started crying and the cop let her off with a warning. One thing about the speed cams is that they had to have better evidence than just an officer's words. The bad part is what others already said: it's you again the cop and the cop will win. Your only hope is that he doesn't show.