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I second all the comments everyone else has said in this forum. All of their comments are very well put and should hopefully give you the feedback you were hoping for.
I've spent time in both Denver and Phoenix and really liked both places very much. And each has their own really great rewards and equal offsets.
So, here's an idea...
Book another flight to Phoenix. Only this time your not on holiday. Make this trip soley about your ambition. Arranage interviews with recruiters, staffing agencies, etc. When your on vacation, you don't have to get up at 6am to get a jump on traffic. And you when you see Phoenix the way you would if you were to ultimatelty decided to move back, then you'd have your true answer.
Denver is very cool town. But I also totally miss Phoenix. So I feel what your saying.
And the others are right. You're young my friend. So test the waters and see where you land.
(Vegas) probably one of the most level headed young posters on the entire site..I say the grass can be greener..that said. go with your gut though it may be at odds with some numbers and statisitcs. People seem to create reasons for others why they shouldn't just take up after their dreams..You my friend may be day dreaming about Phoenix..but I am well aware you have studied the big picture..I say go for it..really go for it. You are young/smart enough to still have nine lives left. I of course adore and love Denver, but it ain't the end all of end alls..more the current flavor of the week. I have spent my fair share of evenings looking out off of Camelback Mt. to know Phoenix is a great place. I left Denver a little while ago and may be returning, but only because I have some family related issues..warmer can be better. You already know you are a desert rat and it's in your blood.
I agree with all the comments above. There are people out there who will try to turn down your dreams. Be headstrong and go for my friend. You only have one chance at life and if Phoenix is calling, I say go for it. It's a far better thing to do something you wanted to do than to sit and wait on it. Some of those urges you get, could be signs of something good or bad. And unless you tempt those waters you'll never know. Who knows what can come out, a treasure chest or a shark. Good luck on your descision. Hope for the best!
Wow! Look at the little mini "positive" revolution that suddenly sparked up on this thread, huh.
I'm not sure if they were chiming in on what I was saying. But.. hey.. your starting hear people saying "go for it". And that's probally more in line with what you were hoping to hear.
If you have the means to land a job in Phoenix and you have friends and connections there, you won't be without help if things got tight. And your from Denver, so you probablly have family, friends, etc, there, so you'd always be able to go come back home if the chips didn't fall in your favor.
I originally hail from Portland OR. And in my young 20 something days, I just one day up and bolted for Las Vegas. Spent a little over a year there, had a blast, and don't regret one minute of it. I don't mind the cold either, or even the rain. But the gloom is what made me chose the desert. And loved the landscape and the chance to start some place new.
Thanks for the replies everybody, there are some very thoughtful comments here!
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Originally Posted by miamiman
So open air bars and palm trees would cause you to move back to Phoenix?
It's shallow, I know.
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Doesn't Denver have a nice downtown area that young professionals in their 20s are supposed to embrace? It sounds like you like the outdoors, so why not stay in Denver?
I stopped in downtown Phoenix-- and even with the new Cityscape project open, it still feels lifeless to me, not a place I would want to go out of my way to spend time in. So when it comes to downtowns and a walkable urban scene, Denver is the clear winner. But then again I went on a week long business trip to NYC back in February-- after seeing Manhattan, just about every any western city's downtown looks like a joke. I think I'm more of a suburban type, though it is fun to have walkable places and downtowns to be able to spend time in.
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Surely you remember how unpredictable ski season can be at Snowbowl. Don't they now use recycled water to make snow? I'd want to stay in Denver if I enjoyed skiing. I personally don't find pleasure in gliding over all of Flagstaff's waste from sunrise to sunset.
Agreed. And I guess you could look at it two ways-- I should keep living in Denver because I like skiing-- or I ski because I live in Denver and I can more easily take advantage of that sport compared to most other places. Just like if I lived in SoCal or Miami, presumably I would want to take advantage of the beach being right there. If I lived in Phoenix I'd want to take full advantage of the activities that location permits-- like being able to go swimming for almost half of the year. If I lived in Omaha, NE, I'd want to take advantage of.... watching corn grow? j/k.
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The recession left the Valley in bad shape. I would think that Denver has a stronger and more diverse economy than Phoenix. I would also think that Denver has a more educated populace than Phoenix, as well.
I would agree with this. Regarding Ponderosa's post, while I haven't studied the historical data beyond the past few years, I've been following the unemployment rates since the recession started, and from 2009 to some time last year, Denver actually had a lower unemployment rate compared to Phoenix and most of the nation. However, now the tables have turned, Denver's unemployment rate has gone up and has now surpassed Phoenix.
When I was looking for jobs last summer, at least based purely on what I could find online (I used indeed.com which searches all job ad sites as well as company's internal job postings) I found WAY more supposed job openings in Denver than Phoenix. Denver seems to have a more diversified economic base given the population of the city-- even though metro Phoenix is bigger by 1 million people (or is it bigger by 1.5 million now?) it seems like Phoenix just doesn't have much industry. However, Phoenix is definitely better for careers than Las Vegas, Tucson, El Paso, or Albuquerque. I did have one job interview in Phoenix last summer, but I didn't get selected.
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If you lived in Reno, I don't see what the big apprehension about Albuquerque is about.
Reno is a place that seemed perfect for me on paper, but I was very unhappy and lonely there. Just about ZERO young professional scene there, and not much to do in terms of city amenities other than drinking and gambling. Truth be told, I wasn't really living in Reno, I was traveling for work every week, company was based out of Reno, but I was really only there on the weekends. The Albuquerque gig would have been very similar, just a different town. I was also scared by the stories about the gang presence there.
It doesn't sound like a "grass is always greener" scenario so much as an attempt to reclaim your old life. If you had a great time at ASU (your college years being a notorious time of embracing youth, devil-may-care attitude, etc.) and something-- or any number of things-- not quite right in life now are making you nostalgic, you might have a desire to reclaim your old life in Phoenix. I made that mistake twice before, so would urge you to use caution in a decision this major. What really slapped me in the face was when I spent a bit of time with someone else who was tenaciously trying to prolong the past, making me realize at that time I was trying to force the past to become the present.
When you were recently in Phoenix, I think you were seeing only what you wanted to see. If you were to up and move, eventually it would look less and less like the way you remembered it.
You (as well as Brenda-by-the-sea) are probably 100% spot on in your analysis. Yes, I'd say my 4 years at ASU/Tempe/Phoenix area, while not perfect, was the happiest I've been in my adult life. Since then, pretty much everybody I knew has gone their own separate ways. I feel like the last several years though (coinciding with the recession, not suprisingly) have been a drag, and from mid-2009 to mid-2010 especially was a completely wasted year of my life. Realistically, this probably has more to do with where I was/am in my career/social life than location-- although I think location can be an important component of happiness.
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Originally Posted by HonestOne1
Having lived in Denver for 25 years, I can tell you that their greatest myth is "300 days of sunshine per year".
More like 3 days. And those other 297 had brief glimpses light between the clouds. Never mind that you are also freezing your axx off.
Welcome home son !!!
Yeah-- Denver could be called the "partly-sunniest" place out there. Days usually either start out sunny, then cloud up, or it's cloudy all day and you have 5 minutes of sun peaking out at the very end of the day, or you have the sky covered in clouds that allow some sunlight to pass through but still not crisp blue skies. To be totally fair, from around last September pretty much all the way up to March, it was exceptionally sunny and warmer than usual this year in Denver-- we actually had a TON of desert days where it was 100% sunshine with no clouds all day long. However, that stretch has since ended. Denver is no Portland, OR, and it is sunnier than the midwest or northeast, but I think the late spring/ early summer in particular can get awfully gloomy-- kinda like SoCal's "May Gray, June Gloom" season. I constantly get in arguments with people here who try to tell me Denver is so sunny... "dude have you ever lived in Phoenix? THAT's what sunshine is all about."
Just to reiterate, I'm not fed up with Denver and looking to relocate now. Right now I'm just thinking about what direction I want my future to go... dreaming, that's all. I think given that I'm still at the very start of my career, as long as I feel like I have job security at my current position, it's best that I stay put for the time being. I spent 4 months looking for jobs after I graduated and another 5 months being unemployed last summer-- I know what it's like, and I don't want to throw away what I already have. It would be nice to accumulate at least 2years minimum at the same place on my resume. At least that's the thinking now... plans could change. I guess the question comes down to doing what's prudent or "screw it, I'll do what I feel like doing!"? Although I guess it never hurts to do some preliminary research and networking w/ the Phoenix business community.
Wish I could respond to everyone. I really appreciate your comments, Scott5280, SevenMile, Phxguy, twiggy, MotleyCrue, and everyone I missed.
Last edited by vegaspilgrim; 05-17-2011 at 11:22 PM..
I have similar feelings when I first return to Phoenix from up north, but within a day or two my enthusiasm cools and I remember why I wanted to leave when I did back in the 1980's. It's no longer the place it once was and I think it is a city of post-climax livability, i.e. a city where livability will be constantly declining from here on out. Albuquerque might be a better bet in this regard, though it certainly has its problems and the climate can be chilly and windy for a good portion of the year.
I'm actually very curious about this post, since I had similar thoughts myself several years ago. When it comes to things like the urban heat island nighttime temperatures problem (this one does concern me a lot), traffic, pollution, I would agree, I don't see how these things could possibly get any better as Phoenix continues to grow. Every city has these problems though... but does Phoenix have it worse?
I'm guessing the climax of Phoenix's liveability in your view was probably some time before I was born-- so I never got to experience "what it once was."
No, I do not think this is because of the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome. I believe this is a case of just missing a place that you once lived in which is totally understandable. Like you, I do also like the Spanish style homes and architecture and like you I also do enjoy warm breezes at times. You have a decision to make and this kind of decision is not easy so I suggest that you take your time and find out what is best for you.
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