Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You stated yourself that people throw DVD's and kids clothing and these people are supposed to be adults. What a great example to set for children. Is this the true spirit of Christmas and what is has become. These are not isolated incidents and this happens in every store, every year not just Walmart. So these Black Friday people are morons. Great deals, most people only save on an average of ten dollars off each thing they buy. I would rather pay the extra ten dollars and save myself the aggravation. I was walking on the beach in California this past Friday laughing at all the Black Friday morons waiting in lines since 3am and assaulting people. This day needs to be banned and I think its time to make some legislation based on some of the people who have been injured and maimed on that day. I watched a video last night of people trampling over a 13 year old girl while they charged into a store so there precious kid can get that video game for Xmas. Who cares who gets injured or killed!. This has become the true meaning of Christimas.
I don't think the cops should be fired. They acted like cops. The blame to my mind is on Walmart for hiring off duty police to act as store detectives. They do not have the training for dealing with customers, recognizing shoplifting behavior, knowing how to deal with a suspected shoplifter. If Walmart needed additional security staff they should have used their own people or hired staff from an agency and given them proper training. The cops should have been there only to process shoplifters at the request of the store or to handle criminal disturbances, crowd control issues.
No, he didn't act like a cop. There were several witnesses that stated the victim didn't resist arrest and even more witnesses questioned the use of excessive force in this case. I personally know and am friends with about 30 police officers and we have to remember that police officers are individuals too and yes there are immoral ones who shouldn't be serving and my friends will attest to that. This person is clearly one of them. None of the police officers I know would conduct themselves in this manner and we shouldn't stereotype all officers and claim they were acting like cops. This officer obviously deserves to be punished and he will when the victim sues him in a civil case in addition to Walmart.
Let's also remember that shoplifting occurs daily in Walmarts all over the country yet you don't hear of many events of police brutality meaning the overwhelming majority of police officers conduct themselves in a professional and ethical manner. Unfortunately, you do have bad people serving. This officer deserves to be fired.
You stated yourself that people throw DVD's and kids clothing and these people are supposed to be adults. What a great example to set for children. Is this the true spirit of Christmas and what is has become. These are not isolated incidents and this happens in every store, every year not just Walmart. So these Black Friday people are morons. Great deals, most people only save on an average of ten dollars off each thing they buy. I would rather pay the extra ten dollars and save myself the aggravation. I was walking on the beach in California this past Friday laughing at all the Black Friday morons waiting in lines since 3am and assaulting people. This day needs to be banned and I think its time to make some legislation based on some of the people who have been injured and maimed on that day. I watched a video last night of people trampling over a 13 year old girl while they charged into a store so there precious kid can get that video game for Xmas. Who cares who gets injured or killed!. This has become the true meaning of Christimas.
There's morons everywhere. Ever been to a Raiders game? Heck, even a Cardinals game. There's morons on the golf course, morons in airports, morons on the beach in California, on the freeways. If we want to avoid morons, we will all have to stay home. The vast, vast majority of shoppers are not acting like idiots. They are having a good time in their own way. The new, as usual, only shows the negatives.
Moron is a term of perspective, I think. The shoppers probably saw you on that beach and said "look at the moron out there walking on the beach at 3am". Anyway, nobody is going to ban Black Friday, so step off the soap box.
Last edited by Ponderosa; 11-28-2011 at 09:42 AM..
Concealing merchandise in az is a crime, when pops concealed it he committed a crime. Other customers informed the officer he stole something. Officer contacts pops, pops resisted got taken to the ground end of story.
I didn't get that impression from reading the article. The impression I received is he was trying to protect his grandson but didn't want to put the game down because others would have grabbed it in the shopping frenzy. He tucked the game under his clothes to conceal it from the other shoppers rather than put it down. The other shoppers witnessed that and tried to get him into trouble because they wanted the same video game. Multiple witnesses claimed he didn't resist arrest. Police officer gets a power trip and wants to show off in front of a crowd of people and slams the victim to the ground and uses unnecessary force.
I didn't get that impression from reading the article. The impression I received is he was trying to protect his grandson but didn't want to put the game down because others would have grabbed it in the shopping frenzy. He tucked the game under his clothes to conceal it from the other shoppers rather than put it down. The other shoppers witnessed that and tried to get him into trouble because they wanted the same video game. Multiple witnesses claimed he didn't resist arrest. Police officer gets a power trip and wants to show off in front of a crowd of people and slams the victim to the ground and uses unnecessary force.
Amen, Azriverfan! "Resisting arrest" to a cop means saying "Why are you arresting me? I didn't do anything". Say that and out come the clubs. It seems pretty clear from the witness statements that the cops beat this guy up for no good reason. It is pretty routine out on the street, but this time it was in front of a lot of witnesses. This time, the whole country was watching. Big mistake, Buckeye PD.
Last edited by Ponderosa; 11-28-2011 at 09:41 AM..
And I realized you were playing devil's advocate in your earlier response and trying to be objective so I know you were not defending the police but I know a lot of officers who would never act that way and unfortunately they get a bad name based on the few morons who ruin it for them
There's morons everywhere. Ever been to a Raiders game? Heck, even a Cardinals game. There's morons on the golf course, morons in airports, morons on the beach in California, on the freeways. If we want to avoid morons, we will all have to stay home. The vast, vast majority of shoppers are not acting like idiots. They are having a good time in their own way. The new, as usual, only shows the negatives.
Unfortunately, there are so many morons in our society that responsible people have to take the high road just to protect themselves. For example, when I see road rage, I let them have their way. If they want to flip me off, or honk at me, fine so be it. I will be happy to change lanes and allow them to pass. The ramifications of getting into a confrontation with them is not worth it. There was a case where a guy shot someone in the head and killed that person due to a road rage incident in Scottsdale not that long ago.
The same thing happens at these ball games. If you go to a Cardinals game, you are bound to run into some morons who will gladly pick a fight with you if you retaliate and that's what they are trying to do because they have nothing better to do and are drunk. There are incidents where people were killed or seriously injured at ball games by thug fans looking to do just that.
I avoid Black Friday for these reasons or if I do shop on Black Friday, I only go to certain stores. I refuse to go to Walmart, Target or Best Buy because the thug/mob mentality creates these situations. Saving $10 on a DVD is not worth it to me. Most of the time, people behave but there are too many people in such a small area that it becomes claustrophobic and can lead to ugliness.
It didn't used to be this way. This mob mentality on Black Friday seemed to have started in the 2000's when stores started offering crazy deals just to get people into the stores. Sure, they've always had Black Friday sales but it wasn't until the late 90's early 2000's when they started giving away electronics for dirt cheap prices as a promotion and to make it a real event if you know what I mean. That led to people camping outside Best Buy for weeks just to be the first person in the store and receive a $1000 shopping spree etc
I took my kids to a park on Black Friday and played with them. The park was relatively empty and the families that did show up were great people looking to spend time with their family.
And I realized you were playing devil's advocate in your earlier response and trying to be objective so I know you were not defending the police but I know a lot of officers who would never act that way and unfortunately they get a bad name based on the few morons who ruin it for them
Upthread I was defending the police arguing that they should not be fired for this incident, but other posters got me riled . It has been my position all along that these officers were doing a job that they were not properly trained or prepared to do. I think they had no place being in the Walmart doing crowd control in the aisles and that Walmart is at fault for hiring them to do that. Cops think everyone is a criminal. They arrest first and ask questions later and this is not the best way to approach crazy shoppers diving for DVDs. Poor gramps probably had the whole day planned out and his heart set on scoring some major deals. No wonder he did not want to be arrested! While admitting that I was not there and did not see what happened, my uninformed opinion is that the Buckeye police could have handled this with more tact and less bravado and avoided the entire incident.
If pops was so concerned for his grandchild getting trampled, why didnt he just drop the DVD and protect the child. Thats because he was more concerned for something materialistic then his grandchild or he saw an opportunity to get a freebee and concealed it thinking no one would see.
There are multiple witnesses who saw the old man dragging the officer down the isle, this is when force was used. The officer at this point could have used his tazer or pepper sprayed the old man. He chose a take down as an option.
The police were not there acting as store detectives. The were alerted by the grandfathers fellow customers and store security who witnessed him conceal it. Its just the same as if store security called the police and had a car dispatched. Walmart was smart hiring off duty officers because with all the Black Friday morons committing crimes at all the different stores on this day they probably would not have been able to respond right away due to their manpower being taxed with accidents, shoplifters and assaults on the great day of Black Friday. So Walmart was smart and hired off duty police so they could have Johnny on the spot to handle any issues from shoppers or security. It paid off because they caught a thief and who knows how many other people stealing that day. The off duty officers also could have prevented a riot or stampede caused by the Black Friday morons. So this officer more then likely saved several lifes and prevented who knows how many crimes by his presence their that day. Good Job Buckeye PD ...hats off to your officers and the Assistant Chief Larry Hall for standing by his officers.
Keep locking up these violence prone animal shoppers and thieves.
There is already a facebook page to support banning Black Friday because of all of the violence. Hopefully we can petition some of our politicians to pass some laws banning these stores from opening on Black Friday or do away with deals they can offer to customers to incite crowds. That would cut down on all of it.
Hopefully we can petition some of our politicians to pass some laws banning these stores from opening on Black Friday or do away with deals they can offer to customers to incite crowds. That would cut down on all of it.
What are the odds of getting our Republican don't-overregulate-business, let- the- free -market -run- free Congress or state legislatures to do any such thing (assuming that's an appropriate course of action)?. The states, including this one, are all loving the sales tax revenue from BF. I'm afraid Black Friday is here to stay, unless the stores themselves change how they approach it. As far as the actual topic of the thread, we will just have to see how this plays out in court.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. It has been my position all along that these officers were doing a job that they were not properly trained or prepared to do. I think they had no place being in the Walmart doing crowd control in the aisles and that Walmart is at fault for hiring them to do that. Cops think everyone is a criminal. They arrest first and ask questions later and this is not the best way to approach crazy shoppers diving for DVDs. Poor gramps probably had the whole day planned out and his heart set on scoring some major deals. No wonder he did not want to be arrested! While admitting that I was not there and did not see what happened, my uninformed opinion is that the Buckeye police could have handled this with more tact and less bravado and avoided the entire incident.
