Looking for culture... (Phoenix, Scottsdale: amusement park, houses, scorpion)

[Magnum Mike]

Culture... isn't that what starts growing on dairy products after they sit in the refrigerator for a few months? (like cultured yougurt)

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by Elmonellie

I keep seeing this. Kind of makes me laugh. People looking to move here that are looking for "culture"...what, exactly are you looking for? What "culture" are you leaving?

I think a lot of people use the word "culture" instead of "urban design." The shortest definition would be "a place that seems to have been designed for people."

More on urban design if anybody has genuine interest by any chance:

What is Urban Design?

http://brgov.com/dept/planning/pdf/U...ndbook1006.pdf

That's what a livable place looks like (absolutely random pictures):

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/pre...6/65213087.JPG

http://www.raisethehammer.org/images...ing_street.jpg

http://www.bed-breakfast-italy.com/i...treet-cafe.jpg

http://www.artmedia.com.au/bikeboy1.jpg

http://www.excelloz.com/imagedata/Travel_guide/ma070200025.jpg (broken link)

Now that's what dead sprawl looks like:

http://www.joetheprogrammer.net/images/rosemary1.jpg

http://www.confiteordeo.info/images/storefront2.JPG

https://pics3.city-data.com/cpicv/vfiles6126.jpg (broken link)

http://mmm-yoso.typepad.com/mmmyoso/images/p1000548.JPG

https://pics3.city-data.com/cpicc/cfiles28287.jpg (broken link)

If you see no difference or prefer the latter, I really envy you.

[topjimmy]

Most of the people who move to Phoenix are trying to get away from throat cultures.

Oooh, I can feel that chilly sickness now. I don't miss it one bit.

[ApartmentNomad]

"Culture" is a tricky word, since (like so many others) it has different meanings.

Sometimes "culture" is used in the very broad sense someone mentioned above, the particular ways of doing things that a certain group of people have, and the spoken or unspoken ideas related to those. "Culture" in that sense can be as minor as how you say hello to someone. (Do you look them in the eye? Do you say "Hellooooo"? Do you say "Howyadoin'" and not look at them directly? Etc.)

But obviously "culture" also gets used in a broader sense as shorthand for the arts, or perhaps the arts and other activities that are traditionally considered elevated. It could be a matter of culture vs. commerce, where "culture" ends up meaning things that aren't done for commercial gain (and often depend on endowments or tax support or the obsessive commitment of certain individuals).

Sometimes I like to say "small 'c' culture" to refer to culture in the broadest sense and "capital 'C' Culture" to refer to culture in the narrower sense.

(Personally, I'm moving to Albuquerque, which has enough Culture for my purposes, and which I think also has its own distinctive culture as well--but I've gotten addicted to reading the forums here in general.)

[Magnum Mike]

Why is it that I keep seeing more and more people talking about "Culture". What the heck do we need culture for? We have our Western culture, doesn't that count? Isn't that enough?

If I see anyone else here complaining about "Lack of culture", I might just throw up!

[londonbarcelona]

Phoenix *has* culture. Maybe not the kind of culture people from cooler climates are looking for, but it has plenty of it. (I'll get back to this)
It seems to me that there are people who move to Phoenix for several reasons. The most common being; moving for a bigger house from CA, moving for a job from Mexico, and moving here in general because they have read somewhere that *everyone else* is moving here and if they don't move immediately, they are missing out on -- something.
Unfortunately, those who move here from places that are in a different time zone, have a very difficult time adjusting. Unless they happen to be very young, and/or very lucky. And let's face it, if you already have family here, you are half way through the battle. The pull of family can be very strong and unless you are within a days drive or a cheap flight away, you may find living here to be a lot harder than you realized.
People move here thinking that for whatever reason, the city of Phoenix and it's endless sunny skies are going to somehow make up for their sh*tty lives. Unfortunately, that is not the reality.
Think of it this way, life is the same no matter where you go. People are people, life and death happen. Same sh*t, different location.
Until 2005, Phoenix had an affordable housing market. ANd it was the *main* reason people moved here. It made up for the fact our weather, though not cold and snowny, is difficult to manage if you are not from here (you have to adjust to a backward schedule.) In Scottsdale, you could buy a very nice 3000 square foot house in Scottsdale, in a nice neighborhood for 325K - in Phoenix, half that --in 2005, that all changed. Suddenly (and I mean suddenly) the price of that same house was now 700K!!
And Phoenix, being it's quirky self, doesn't really have a good side of town or a bad side of town. However, Scotttsdale seems to be the most consistant when it comes to safe neighborhoods, education and entertainment.
It's hard to pin down an area (other than Scottsdale, the Desert Ridge or Kierland areas) that is mainly really clean/safe, nice area. The thing about Phoenix (and the surrounding areas) is that other than Northeast Phoenix (PV Mall and North) it's pretty much a crap shoot as to whether or not you are going to end up in a safe area with good schools.
*Some* streets are nice, then two blocks down you may fear for your life. It's such a strange thing. If you live here for a while, you will get to know where the *good places* are.
I would like to add though, that all my friends that have grown up in Phoenix, now live in either Scottsdale or Northeast Phoenix with Chandler and Gilbert a close second. (Sorry West Valley, I know Jerry Moyes lives there, and it has *more millionaries* than the east valley<rolling eyes because they are nearly all second home owners> - meaning they don't live there most of the year! It's a cheap vacation home!) but truth be told, most people prefer the east valley because it's safer and more convenient.
That being said, Phoenix HAS culture! It has a TON of it! It's just different than what people are expecting or used to. Phoenix's culture is very Hispanic. Especially Mexican influenced. (Like Cuban is in Miami) I think the problem is that, like it or not, Phoenix is a VERY Hispanic city. (Latest counts for Maricopa county I believe were 55% Mexican/Hispanic).
There are more places than I can count for culture. All the above named, and most of the neighborhoods. We have a ton of barrios, and it's not a bad thing. It's our culture! Phoenix is a very hispanic city and it will remain so. We have everything you can find in Mexico -- except an ocean!

But the east coast it aint.
And it never will be.
It's also NOT an ocean city (like LA, San Fran, or Miami) there is no water here, we have what we like to call lakes, but they are more like reservoirs. No waves, no swimming, but tons of fun for boating and tubing. We have a river, but seriously, it's a big river and I don't know many people who actually swim in a river. I don't think that there are even any houses built on it.
I feel that North of Phoenix (Flagstaff, Showlow, Prescott) are fantastic places to live, and if you can find a job nearby, more power to you. However, unless you own a small business or work at one, good luck at making a living in those beautiful and cooler places. However, if you are *in the money*, you can buy a beautiful property there for a million or so. Definately worth the money.

Schools suck in Arizona. They just *do.* And the funny thing about it is that they are actually BETTER than they were 10 years ago and we are *still* in the bottom for education! It is possible to find really good schools here, if you live in the right area. However, the thing that concerns me the most is the simple fact that we only have a few universities, and other than U of A, they all stink.

Hell, we don't even have a medical school! Or a teaching university!
We do have a few (and I mean very few) departments that are outstanding, like the Walter Cronkite (sp) School of Journalism, but in the long run, for a state that houses the 5th largest city, our school systems suck and more importantly, our universty system is a scary embarassment. It started to get better, than this recession hit and our housing market tanked (and we are just at the fringe so it will get much, much, worse unfortunately) so many of our sponsors have pulled up roots and once again Arizona is screwed.
But Culture -- now THAT we have!

[Great Joy]

Originally Posted by Elmonellie

Carolinas for an early lunch. Checking out the "canal" in N. Scottsdale....a stroll down Mill Ave. Neowest, hmmmm, I'm going to use that term!

Elmonellie, I love your ideas. Yes, Encanto Park is beautiful. Where specifically are these other places you mention? Thanks in advance

[Great Joy]

To all, any other places that are must sees in the area?

[tking37]

Hmmm? Culture I suppose is one of those things that's hard to define until it's absent. If one defines "culture" as a celebration of artistic creativity, then I suppose Phoenix lack "culture".

If one defines "culture" as an environment that fosters intellectual growth and development through excellent schools and institutions of learning, then I suppose Phoenix is lacking that as well.

If one defines "culture" as not only the recognition but the celebration of ethnic and cultural diversity, then I suppose Phoenix would be lacking that too.

If one defines "culture" as an environment that inspires people to escape their everyday mundane routines through various forms of self-expression, be it playing a musical instrument or listening to live musicians perform, creative writing or supporting writers by listening to them read their literary works, painting or supporting your local art museums with your patronage, political discourse and getting involved in current world events on a local level, then I suppose Phoenix lacks culture.

No matter how one choses to realistically define "culture", Phoenix is pretty much missing it.

I think the lack of "culture" here, however you chose to define it can be attributed to the Phoenix having among all fifty states, the crappiest public education system in the nation. By "crappiest" I mean, underfunded, lacking resources, staff... unappreciated as well as way underpaid, and students... unmotivated. Just one person's perspective.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by sheena

It always seems like they are looking for food and older buildings, coffee shops (what is it with coffee shops)art shows I don't know? I'm just looking for greener and an ocean. Good pizza wouldn't hurt.

Typically; cared for older neighborhoods have things like mature vegetation and too, many of like (like myself) prefer areas that remind us of where our grandparents lived

Coffeehouse: envision a 'bar' but with no alcohol in most cases......I enjoy socializing, listening to folk, jazz as well as other forms of non headbanging/gangsta rap music.

Art festivals; even small ones for for me as well.

Pizza: Papa John's works for me in the world of chains......

Ocean: nothing like that here in Az.

OTOH: I am no sports fan (much to my G/F's dismay......never mind that I look like a 'jock'), etc.

There you have it in a nutshell for a 'Bohemian' redneck (me)