Denver Or Phoenix (Tucson, Mesa, Glendale: apartment, attorney, heat pump)
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> that's sure is a whole lot of records being broken recently,
> possibly because it's getting warmer on average ...
Possibly. I was hoping that you had some decent information on the last ten years.
Records, by definition are many standard deviations out and do not prove that the averages are
increasing. If the averages aren't increasing, then the climate in Denver is not getting warmer.
The temperature for the whole planet can be increasing, but some areas will trend lower.
Again, if you plot the date **YOU** posted, it shows a decrease in temperatures from the
Jan 15-31 period which is counter to the actual trend that happens every month of January.
Your data doesn't prove anything. Unless you have good AVERAGE temperature data, you've got nothing.
Every piece of evidence that I have seen show that Denver is
getting colder in January. I don't know about the rest of the year.
Show me something valid or stop asserting that something is true when it is not.
Phoenix is now the 5th largest US city with traffic congestion comparable to Los Angeles. Air conditioning costs are very high and income and property taxes are among the highest. With Arizona cities, you would do better with Tucson. Anywhere in Arizona you will be in competition with both legal and illegal immigrants, competing with the winter snow birds and high number of retired for employment. Consequently salaries aren't all that high unless you have at least a bachelor degree from a good university.
Crime in Arizona is generally high. A major drug corridor as well as slavery and extortion from illegal border crossings. There have been several shootouts between the coyotes smuggling people across the border. Phoenix is a class #1 city for auto insurance, red light runners and auto theft. Few cities have higher rates. Increasingly, Arizona employers are requiring ability to use Spanish as the population increasingly becomes Latin American. Then there is the American Indian population. Often plagued with alcohol and drug abuse, if you are in a traffic accident with one living on a reservation, don't bother suing. You can't collect a cent as they are protected under Federal Law from liens and judgements.
Denver would be a better choice. Salt lake and larger cities in Montana are hot spots for high paying jobs. In Butte Montana, even McDonalds was offering a starting salary of $12 an hour. Low crime, relatively cheap housing.
Phoenix has had a few reported tornadoes as well as frequent street flooding. And watch out for global warming as heat pumps and most air conditioners will cease functioning at 122 degrees. And that has happened. I originally lived in Phoenix and had a great uncle that was governor and US Senator in the 1950's. Since late 1960's, Arizona and especially Phoenix politicians and major corporate managers are largelt corrupt ones from Canton and Youngstown Ohio. As in mafia, Charles Keating and the US's largest bank failure. He was too sick to serve in prison 20 years ago but is still an active corporate advisor.
Hell's Angels are also big in Phoenix. They have clubhouses in Phoenix, Sunnyslope, Glendale, Tempe, Mesa and Cave Creek. Sonny Barger the founder of Hell's Angels lives in Cave Creek. As it goes no one complains about their meetings or road trips. The police afraid of confrontation. Though 3 Phoenix undercover police infilterated their club for nearly 2 years and claimed they didn't break any laws including drugs. Yeah, I really believe that. They would have been discovered the first night.
Phoenix is now the 5th largest US city with traffic congestion comparable to Los Angeles. Air conditioning costs are very high and income and property taxes are among the highest. With Arizona cities, you would do better with Tucson. Anywhere in Arizona you will be in competition with both legal and illegal immigrants, competing with the winter snow birds and high number of retired for employment. Consequently salaries aren't all that high unless you have at least a bachelor degree from a good university.
I disagree there-------Tucson has all pf Phx's drawbacks plus a few more as in very bad traffic even during non rush hour plus the wages there are lower------I have lived in both places. Admittedly I was by 67th Ave/Indian School yesterday looking at a car and was disgusted at the area.
Quote:
Crime in Arizona is generally high. A major drug corridor as well as slavery and extortion from illegal border crossings. There have been several shootouts between the coyotes smuggling people across the border. Phoenix is a class #1 city for auto insurance, red light runners and auto theft. Few cities have higher rates. Increasingly, Arizona employers are requiring ability to use Spanish as the population increasingly becomes Latin American. Then there is the American Indian population. Often plagued with alcohol and drug abuse, if you are in a traffic accident with one living on a reservation, don't bother suing. You can't collect a cent as they are protected under Federal Law from liens and judgements.
True up to a point but the attitudes are hardening fast against the illegal immigrant; both socially as well as legally.
Quote:
Denver would be a better choice. Salt lake and larger cities in Montana are hot spots for high paying jobs. In Butte Montana, even McDonalds was offering a starting salary of $12 an hour. Low crime, relatively cheap housing.
And 4 season weather which is not an option for myself, I hate snow and ice.
Quote:
Phoenix has had a few reported tornadoes as well as frequent street flooding. And watch out for global warming as heat pumps and most air conditioners will cease functioning at 122 degrees. And that has happened. I originally lived in Phoenix and had a great uncle that was governor and US Senator in the 1950's. Since late 1960's, Arizona and especially Phoenix politicians and major corporate managers are largelt corrupt ones from Canton and Youngstown Ohio. As in mafia, Charles Keating and the US's largest bank failure. He was too sick to serve in prison 20 years ago but is still an active corporate advisor.
Having lived along the Colorado River (Bullhead and Lake Havasu City); this place is tolerable in the summer-------back east is worse courtesy of its humidity. I am from back there.
There is corruption everywhere, sad to say and I suspect it has grown since 2000.
Quote:
Hell's Angels are also big in Phoenix. They have clubhouses in Phoenix, Sunnyslope, Glendale, Tempe, Mesa and Cave Creek. Sonny Barger the founder of Hell's Angels lives in Cave Creek. As it goes no one complains about their meetings or road trips. The police afraid of confrontation. Though 3 Phoenix undercover police infilterated their club for nearly 2 years and claimed they didn't break any laws including drugs. Yeah, I really believe that. They would have been discovered the first night.
HA's took over the Dirty Dozen MC so that is a wash........and, word has it that the HA's watch their manners in Scottsdale------the police there will pounce for the smallest violation. And too Sonny is pushing age 70.....it will be interesting what happens to the HA's when he passes-----as it stands: they are being challenged by other groups as in the Mongols.
All of that said: the Phx area today ain't what it was back in 1990 when I arrived here------it was much nicer then IMHO.
> .... heat pumps and most air conditioners will cease functioning
> at 122 degrees.
Have you got a cite for that or a detailed explanation?
I agree that a swamp cooler won't be adequate at that temperature,
but there is no physical reason that an air conditioner which is the
same as a heat pump in cooling mode won't be able to keep the
interior below 80.
Affording it is whole other matter.
> And that has happened. ...
Yes it has. Once in 1990. However, Phoenix is not the hottest
place in the country. There are other locations where it regularly
gets over 122 and their air conditioners still work.
> that's sure is a whole lot of records being broken recently,
> possibly because it's getting warmer on average ...
Possibly. I was hoping that you had some decent information on the last ten years.
Records, by definition are many standard deviations out and do not prove that the averages are
increasing. If the averages aren't increasing, then the climate in Denver is not getting warmer.
The temperature for the whole planet can be increasing, but some areas will trend lower.
Again, if you plot the date **YOU** posted, it shows a decrease in temperatures from the
Jan 15-31 period which is counter to the actual trend that happens every month of January.
Your data doesn't prove anything. Unless you have good AVERAGE temperature data, you've got nothing.
Every piece of evidence that I have seen show that Denver is
getting colder in January. I don't know about the rest of the year.
Show me something valid or stop asserting that something is true when it is not.
the data on denverishotterthanphoenixinwinter.com show that Denver is 75 degrees every January and Phoenix is only 37 degrees. Easy choice if you ask me...
> .... heat pumps and most air conditioners will cease functioning
> at 122 degrees.
Have you got a cite for that or a detailed explanation?
I agree that a swamp cooler won't be adequate at that temperature,
but there is no physical reason that an air conditioner which is the
same as a heat pump in cooling mode won't be able to keep the
interior below 80.
Affording it is whole other matter.
> And that has happened. ...
Yes it has. Once in 1990. However, Phoenix is not the hottest
place in the country. There are other locations where it regularly
gets over 122 and their air conditioners still work.
Bullhead City as well as Lake Havasu City both come to mind-------I have lived in both places and it can be brutal in the summers. Phx ain't nothing by comparision
Heat pumps work by heat exchanger. I have read many times that they stop functioning at 122 degrees. Phoenix used to do fine with swamp coolers until the mid 70's. But people brought in new plants that raised the humidity and they no longer worked as effectively.
Air conditioners can operate at higher temperatures. If you have a roof unit, you have bigger problems because of solar heating, often on a tile roof. They have wised up a bit and started mounting them on the ground in the afternoon shade. I am a metrologist (precision measurements, not weather) and an electronic engineer. As everywhere, when the temperature goes high and demand increases, the voltage will drop. 104 VAC is the threshold where compressors come to risk of burnout. AKA brownout. FYI, most all the electricity from the nuclear power plant goes to California. Most Phoenix electricity comes from coal fired plants and some hydroelectric. People would do much better with gas air conditioning, especially the chilled water units. They're available and comparable in price. Big drawback is finding someone to install. They are far more economical to operate and longer life expectancy. Shopping centers and other major buildings usually use them.
I lived in Phoenix, Tucson, Flagstaff, Gila Bend and Williams. I never made lower wages than in Phoenix. And I worked at some of the best defence plants. Tucson had the highest wages at Hughes Missile Div. I hold a bachelor of science in electronic engineering, bachelor of science in Ancient History of the Levant and master of science in metrology. The first from NAU, the second 2 from U of A.
When Phoenix builds freeways and have to have Union laborers under Federal Mandate, the workers are imported from California. Union workers are rare in Arizona except for things like Federal employees. And they don't like spoiling Arizona workers by paying the 150% union rate required on government contracts. Unions hold little sway since so many construction workers are from Mexico. You will find even roofers, a brutal job, make only a little better than minimum wage and sometimes less. The painters union disbanded and electrical union drastically reduced rates because of the scab competition. In the 70's reduced from $22 per hour to $12. At least as big a problem as the Mexican immigrant, legal or illegal, is a large number of people working under the table for low wages while collecting welfare, disability or just dodging taxes or child support. I am a Viet Nam Veteran and denied treatment at the Phoenix VA Hospital. I add that I was combat wounded and given a Purple Heart in 1967. And while I still have complications, I was not given a disability rating. But because of influx of veterans from other states, the Phoenix VA was the most underfunded. To gain admission one needed a 60% or greater disability rating. Not so where I am now. John McCain was working on correcting the problem.
Phoenix wasn't bad in the 50's and 60's. I well remember when Phoenix had a population of less than 250,000 and Arizona just over 500,000. My family lived in Paradise Valley and very near Barry Goldwater. To all thinking him a conservative Republican, how wrong you are. He did present that image for votes but was quite the opposite. In fact if you read of his days guiding rafts on the Colorado through the Grand Canyon, he was much a hippie back in the 1930's.
Might also be a suprise but you have little chance working for either Salt River Project at Arizona Public Service unless you are Mormon. Among other larger businesses you do much better if an ASU alumni. Though both are likely improving. But nepotism has always been common with the larger businesses.
Phoenix is the second fastest growing city, right behind Las Vegas. So you can expect it to get more congested and crowded. I started referring to Phoenix as East LA about 1985. The migration from California really accelerated about that time. Much of the water comes from CAP, Agua Prieta, Salt and Verde Rivers. If you drink it you are risking eventual gall, kidney stones and even kidney failure and death. The culprits are minerals such as calcium phosphate. A reverse osmosis system will clear it up though. Same water is responsible for car radiator and battery failures.
Well known fact in Phoenix if you are an illegal is to go to 24th St and McDowell and there are plenty of green card, social security and drivers licenses available.
I won't say where I live because I don't want the influx. But the weather is great. While it can snow it is seldom and gone the next day. Weather very mild and seldom freezes. Lots of mountains and rivers. Both hunting and fishing excellent. Very good wages. About the only negative is high home prices. This makes a high homeless population of working people, but camping is great and preferable to apartments or shared housing. No sales tax either. During summer I can even live off the land with available fruit etc. All I have to do for a garden is throw out some seeds and they will grow. I get a minimum of two deer and two elk every year, plus plenty of trout and salmon (I throw the rainbows back as I like only the German Browns) Both the ocean and high mountains are within my county as well. Only 70,000 people to share the county's 4722 square miles. Crime is very low, but that comes with my perspective as the 3rd ranking sheriff's officer. Most crime is drug related but lacks things like burglary and robbery. Mainly posession, manufacture and sales. In fact most people commonly leave doors unlocked and keys in vehicles without incident.
Which brings to mind that the Phoenix Police had a car theft division. No, not tracking down car thieves but stealing cars. I knew one officer doing it. They stole cars and sold them to raise money for narcotics buys. Course you were only at risk with a high end auto. Makes one wonder who's the worse criminal. Put your house on vacation watch and you were guaranteed to be burglarized. The police would allow someone to loot you in exchange for information. Both circa 1989.
Tucson lacks the sprawl. You can go west to the Desert Preserve, along the Santa Cruz and Riallito Rivers etc. I frequently used public transit in Tucson and could get around effectively. Something I never found possible in Phoenix. Tucson also had everything good associated with Hispanic culture. Large parks, architecture. Not the glass buildings of downtown Phoenix. I always found Tucson a much friendlier city. And I loved the Desert Preserve, rivers, Reid Park and its zoo, Ft Lowell, the Pima Air museum and air force bone yard. And lots of escapes from the desert as well.
Not many things that I am allergic to. But my eyes really get irritated by citrus blossoms. Worst in the Mesa area. When checking some national housing prices, Phoenix was listed as one of the most inflated. In fact a few east coast cities, LA, San Francisco, San Diego and Miami were about the only higher. Houston was considered the big city bargain.
Last edited by Ron1947; 09-16-2007 at 03:14 PM..
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