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normcrok8 is entitled to his opinion however it doesn't change the fact that it is wrong. Phoenix is extremely affluent and ranked 11th in the country with households earning 200K or more.
Cities Ranked by the number of households earning $200,000+ Annually
1. New York, NY 177,361
2. Los Angeles, CA 78,427
3. Chicago, IL 43,703
4. San Francisco, CA 35,748
5. Houston, TX 35,734
6. San Diego, CA 29,223
7. San Jose, CA 27,055
8. Dallas, TX 23,883
9. Washington, DC 21,194
10. Seattle, WA 19,108 11. Phoenix, AZ 18,219
12. Austin, TX 14,686
13. Boston, MA 14,443
14. Charlotte, NC 14,407
15. Atlanta, GA 13,635
16. San Antonio, TX 10,861
18. Denver, CO 10,365
19. Philadelphia, PA 9,747
20. Oakland, CA 8,985
21. Las Vegas, NV 8,608
22. Honolulu, HI 8,335
23. Indianapolis, IN 8,237
24. Portland, OR 8,129
25. Nashville-Davidson, TN 6,285
26. Memphis, TN 6,285
27. Long Beach, CA 6,255
28. Minneapolis, MN 6,155
29. Oklahoma City, OK 6,058
30. Louisville-Jefferson, KY 5,742
31. Baltimore, MD 5,510
32. Fort Worth, TX 5,317
33. Virginia Beach, VA 5,144
34. Sacramento, CA 4,733
35. Colorado Springs, CO 4,506 36. Mesa, AZ 4,312
37. Columbus, OH 4,208
38. Omaha, NE 4,131
39. Anaheim, CA 4,126
40. Kansas City, MO 4,077
41. Albuquerque, NM 4,039
42. Miami, FL 3,982
43. El Paso, TX 3,861
44. New Orleans, LA 3,565
45. Cincinnati, OH 3,489
46. Pittsburgh, PA 3,081
47. Fresno, CA 3,026
48. Bakersfield, CA 2,903
49. Detroit, MI 2,485
Not sure what that proves. San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Dallas, Washington and Seattle are all smaller than Phoenix (DC and SF considerably so) yet have more people in that category. They can't be talking about metropolitan areas since Mesa is in the list.
I don't know if anyone has brought up the fact nothing is really centralized besides government? For example, the high tech jobs range from north scottsdale to south chandler. I felt the same about entertainment.
The kind of goes hand in hand with sprawl style development.
Not sure what that proves. San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Dallas, Washington and Seattle are all smaller than Phoenix (DC and SF considerably so) yet have more people in that category. They can't be talking about metropolitan areas since Mesa is in the list.
Here, everyone -- I made azriverfan's data more meaningful. Sorry, but you can't just rank cities by "number of households earning $200,000 or more". Without taking into account the POPULATION of each city, they cannot be compared. Imagine an imaginary town of 50 people, where each of them is a millionaire. It wouldn't even make this list, but it would obviously be a very wealthy place...
I looked up the population for each of the cities ranked. Then, I divided this by 2.6 (average household size for the US -- gives us an idea of how many households there are in each city). Then, I calculated the percent of households earning $200,000 or more. So, while this list obviously skips a few small cities, that didn't have enough households to make the original list, I feel it's a better ranking of the data provided.
1. San Francisco, CA - 11.54%
2. Washington, DC - 8.91%
3. Atlanta, GA - 8.44%
4. Seattle, WA - 8.16%
5. San Jose, CA - 7.22%
6. Honolulu, HI - 6.42%
7. Boston, MA - 6.08%
8. Oakland, CA - 5.97%
9. San Diego, CA - 5.83%
10. New York, NY - 5.59%
11. Los Angeles, CA - 5.37%
12. Dallas, TX - 5.18%
13. Charlotte, NC - 5.12%
14. Austin, TX - 4.83%
15. Houston, TX - 4.42%
16. Denver, CO - 4.34%
17. Chicago, IL - 4.21%
18. Minneapolis, MN - 4.21%
19. Las Vegas, NV - 3.83%
20. Portland, OR - 3.62%
21. Long Beach, CA - 3.51% 22. Phoenix, AZ - 3.27%
23. Anaheim, CA - 3.19%
24. Virginia Beach, VA - 3.05%
25. Cincinnati, OH - 3.05%
26. Colorado Springs, CO - 2.81%
27. Oklahoma City, OK - 2.71%
28. New Orleans, LA - 2.69%
29. Omaha, NE - 2.62%
30. Pittsburgh, PA - 2.62%
31. Sacramento, CA - 2.61%
32. Nashville-Davidson, TN - 2.6%
33. Indianapolis, IN - 2.58% 34. Mesa, AZ - 2.55%
35. Miami, FL - 2.53%
36. Memphis, TN - 2.46%
37. Baltimore, MD - 2.31%
38. Bakersfield, CA - 2.17%
39. San Antonio, TX - 2.12%
40. Kansas City, MO - 2.07%
41. Louisville-Jefferson, KY - 2.01%
42. Albuquerque, NM - 1.92%
43. Fort Worth, TX - 1.86%
44. Philadelphia, PA - 1.66%
45. El Paso, TX - 1.54%
46. Fresno, CA - 1.54%
47. Columbus, OH - 1.39%
48. Detroit, MI - 0.9%
*Note: The original list skipped no.17, which is why my list goes to 48, while azriverfan's list goes to 49.
It appears, then, Phoenix has moved considerably farther down the list, while Mesa has jumped up a few spots.
According to cost of living calculator, only 4 of the 21 cities outranking Phoenix have a cost of living cheaper than or equal to that of Phoenix. Those cities are: Dallas, TX; Charlotte, NC; Austin, TX; and Houston, TX.
From this, it's pretty obvious Texas has a low cost of living, and good paying jobs! I'm not going to start bashing Texas or North Carolina, so I'll end with this:
Phoenix is among the cheapest large cities to live, close to several other major metropolitan areas (and the attractions that come with them). The average salary in Phoenix is more than enough to afford a decent living here, and (if budgeted wisely) is enough to go on "trips" to the aforementioned surrounding attractions. Within a days drive of Phoenix, there's several beaches (both in the US and in Mexico), attractions (Disneyland, Seaworld, Vegas Strip, Hollywood, etc), and outdoor activities (Three Ski resorts in Arizona alone, Grand Canyon, Salt River tubing, misc hiking trails and mountains, etc). The weather is great 8 months of the year, and hot the other 4 (which, depending on your limits, could be a serious con, or could be a mild annoyance). There's beautiful scenery in and around Phoenix, and a large inventory of cheap houses for sale. Yes, there is crime in Arizona. I would love to see a major city in the US that DIDN'T have crime.
All in all, it is what you make of it. If you choose to be miserable, and hate it here, then you will focus on only the negative aspects and miss out on all that Phoenix (and Arizona) has to offer. Likewise, if you focus on the positive things, you'll certainly enjoy your stay.
And, for those who hate it here and want to leave: might I suggest Texas?
LOL, I find it hilarious that people use the closeness of California, Las Vegas, Rocky Point, et al as selling points to move to Phoenix. Seems odd that as much as some of you folks love Phoenix, you long to get away so often. Like another poster said above, if those other places have so much more to offer why not move there? Sheesh!
Point being, you're close enough to enjoy those places, without paying the price to live there. I'd rather visit Long Beach or Coronado, and pay what I pay to live in Phoenix. Also, I'm a bit of a gearhead, meaning any place in Cali is out of the question for me (those damn CARB rules). Arizona has a huge automotive scene, and less restrictive emissions tests. Rocky Point? I've heard it used to be the place to go, but nowadays Mexico is getting more and more dangerous. Vegas is just Phoenix with some fancy hotels and casinos.
That's another huge pro of Phoenix -- because of the dry weather, and the lack of rain or snow, classic cars don't fall apart. There's no rust, and a huge car culture. How many classic '69 Camaros do you see driving around in the Northeast?
LOL, yeah and because of all the dry weather and searing heat, quite a few things break down on cars very easily. The heat is hard on brakes, hoses, and especially tires. I remember a lot of shredded tires on the freeways there especially in the summer. Besides the heat is just totally uncomfortable when you get inside your car after being parked in the sun for a while, and that could be any time of year.
Phoenix is among the cheapest large cities to live, close to several other major metropolitan areas (and the attractions that come with them). The average salary in Phoenix is more than enough to afford a decent living here, and (if budgeted wisely) is enough to go on "trips" to the aforementioned surrounding attractions.
Not trying to target your posts but I didn't find Phoenix so cheap when I lived there. Factor in the high cost of water if you have grass, trees, and a pool, and the enormous cost of running the air-conditioner for 5-6 months or longer just to stay comfortable, and it's not so inexpensive!
I'll give you that -- the heat and sun will crack and dry rubber products a lot quicker. But, it's a lot easier to replace tires and hoses than it is to repaint a car, or replace rusted pieces of metal. As I said in the quoted post, how many classics do you see driving around in the snowbelt, compared to the sunbelt?
As for your other post, it's all about how you live. Non-native yards are always expensive / difficult to maintain. We have gravel, and native plants in our yard. Granted, our pool has to be topped off every now and then, but the benefits of having a pool outweigh the cost of ownership. Running the A/C for 5-6 months? Our AC (and heat, for that matter) was completely shut off from the end of October to the end of April. That's 6 months, with pennies for electric bills. Through May, we turned our A/C on for a couple of hours during the day, then turned it off. May has been our most expensive month this year, obviously, but it's still not breaking the bank.
And our household? Two college students, renting a 1500 sq ft house, with a combined income of about $20,000 / year. We eat well, and live comfortably. It's all about budgeting.
EDIT: I should add, from October to April, we kept a close eye on the interior and exterior temperatures of our house (sort of an experiment...it gave us something to do). The coldest our house ever got was 64 degrees one January morning. The hottest it got was 86 degrees. We've both agreed, the house is comfortable from about 60 degrees, to about 90 degrees. With heat and A/C off, we stayed within +/-4 degrees of our comfort zone.
LOL, I find it hilarious that people use the closeness of California, Las Vegas, Rocky Point, et al as selling points to move to Phoenix. Seems odd that as much as some of you folks love Phoenix, you long to get away so often. Like another poster said above, if those other places have so much more to offer why not move there? Sheesh!
Simple. Because I don't want to live in California or Las Vegas or anywhere else for that matter.
You go to California for the good stuff and you don't have to deal with the crappy stuff. You go for the beaches, Disneyland, Hollywood, etc. Those are nice things to see a time or two. I like some things Cali has but I certainly don't want to fight the crowds, the high cost of living, horrible road system many other things on a daily basis.
Same with Vegas. Cool place to let it all hang out for a few days but just because I like Vegas does NOT mean I want to live there.
The proximity to these things does make a difference to many people. Just because we want to get away now and then doesn't mean we are "settling" for Phoenix. Phoenix has so much to offer that many other places don't and being close to so many cool places to visit is just one of them.
So to say"Seems odd that as much as some of you folks love Phoenix, you long to get away so often. If those other places have so much more to offer why not move there? Sheesh!"
So it sounds like you never leave Renton to go explore some place else? Sounds like a boring life to me.
Even living in So. Cal or Vegas, people still go other places because they can. Maybe even Renton or Phoenix..............Go figure.
Not trying to target your posts but I didn't find Phoenix so cheap when I lived there. Factor in the high cost of water if you have grass, trees, and a pool, and the enormous cost of running the air-conditioner for 5-6 months or longer just to stay comfortable, and it's not so inexpensive!
Not trying to target your posts but I've got to wonder why your water bill was so expensive? I've got a rather large pool, almost 1/2 acre, 3 people in the house and I've not had a water bill more than $38.00 so far.
I moved from the Northwest last year after 25 years up there.
You say running the A/C is expensive? Yes it is but only for about 5 months. After that, it's off and our utilities aren't even worth mentioning. My utilities in Oregon were far more $ over a 12 month period than here in Phoenix and I had half the square footage and no pool and a yard that was watered from the heavens.
I'm sorry but when someone puts out false information I have to speak up.
Water isn't expensive here unless you are wasteful with it. Keeping comfortable year 'round is cheap compared to many places, housing is certainly affordable and the desert is a beautiful place it you actually open your eyes and see what's in front of you.
Sorry for the rant but other people from all over the world look at this site for a source of information so they can make a somewhat intelligent decision about moving here. Let's keep things honest.
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