Phoenix is seeking residents' input on future of downtown...

[Phxguy]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

And we aren't talking that long ago that downtown L.A. was dead. I remember being there in 2000 and it was totally dead! They've done a lot in the last 12 years.

The problem with Phoenix is that their strategy for recruiting people to downtown wasn't working. There was enthusiasm but poor planning. The ASU strategy has paid off but the city needs to do more to bring in people from surrounding suburbs by builidng more museums, live music, theatres, libraries, parks, unique restaurants and unique shopping to really make it worth your while to drive to downtown. If they provide those things, people will venture there to check it out. But right now, most don't do it because outside of pro sports, almost everything can be had in the burbs. That is slowly changing with City Scape and the comedy club etc but it still has a long way to go.

I agree with this, we need to give the people (tourists or others who are interested in our city) more culture. We need to show them that we are the capital of the Southwest and not some bland suburb. You can especailly see this improvement along Roosevelt Row and Grand Avenue. Place more museums around the Arizona Opera building and Art Museum to staple the museum district. Connect it to the main library and a revamped Hance Park. Add the histroric streetcars to connect it all with the Arts district and downtown and viola! As someone mentioned earlier the community involvement is there; we just need to stop sitting around and talking and actually get things done.

[Howard Roark]

I'm an avid fitness swimmer. For downtown Phoenix I'd like to see either an L.A. Fitness with a 5-lane by 25 yard pool or a Life Time Fitness with even better pools (and a separate hopper and bopper pool for the people who are not serious swimmers so they won't interfere with lap swimmers).

Downtown already has bars, coffee shops, and some restaurants (I like Kincaid's). Could use more. If a serious lap swim complex was put in, it would have everything I want. Yes I do like having Chase Field and the D'backs downtown, have enjoyed going to occasional games.

I'm in the Ahwatukee area, there are several good lap swimming pools. But it's far away from the sports venues of downtown. I do think the technology parks are "here to stay" in the Chandler/Gilbert/Tempe areas, so this part of the valley will keep me for awhile. I could always watch a game from a sports bar.

[miamiman]

Why aren't we like LA? Why aren't we like Oklahoma City? Who cares? Phoenix is what it is. Do either one of those cities have a major research university in their immediate downtowns? No. Do either one of those cities have two professional sports arenas in their downtowns? No.

I think our future downtown should focus on preserving and maintaining what we have now. People want more and more when we can't even sustain what we have. I made it to our downtown today for the first time in many months. I went by CityScape and was impressed with all the development down there. I was also impressed by the Freeport-McMoran complex. It seems very modern and not too imposing. ASU's campus is really starting to come together, but I could count on two hands how many students I saw outside. The convention center looks modern and like it's capable of holding the masses.

15 Monroe is a complete disaster, windows missing, gutted, everything. Very few stores were actually open and downtown and there weren't too many people down there either. I stopped by the Starbucks and took a stroll around downtown. I was asked by three different people for money within a 10 minute period, I was shocked by all the empty ground-level commerical space in various buildings in the downtown area. There were too many vacant lots that could be utilized as public spaces. I can imagine some of the surface lots being used as a farmers market for local farmers.

There is just no need of more stuff downtown when stuff just sits empty. Utilize the space we have and then consider building more.

I just can't understand the concept of building just to build. It's extremely nonsensical.

[HX_Guy]

Chicken and egg. Very simply. Which came first?

There aren't not enough places open/places to shop/places to eat/spaces rented because there aren't enough people downtown. Why aren't there enough people downtown? Because there aren't enough places open/to eat/to do/ to shop.

What downtown needs, and is slowly getting more of, is residents. The more people live there, the more they need necessities, the more places will stay open etc etc. You yourself said that .1% of Phoenix in Phoenix would want to live in an urban setting, which my figures suggest is about 4,200 people. Build 10 buildings, fill them up, and let's see what happens.

Someone has to take the leap and that's the tricky part. People want to live downtown (at least some, I'm sure even you can at least agree to that) but then they think, why live downtown if I still have to drive to a grocery store or to do some shopping or to go to Target or whatever else they may want to do? The point of living downtown is to be able to do these things without your car. So then you think develops should take the first step and build it "and they will come", at least that's what you hope, but the problem is that it doesn't happen that fast. You may open a grocery store, but you'll need thousands or residents to support it and that could happen, after a few years. In that time though, that store is struggling and eventually closes. And you're back to square one.

No one is saying build stuff just to build stuff, I don't know where you are getting that. We, at least me, are saying build things out of necessity, and I see a need for more residential buildings, judging by the vacancy rate of current rental properties downtown.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Chicken and egg. Very simply. Which came first?

There aren't not enough places open/places to shop/places to eat/spaces rented because there aren't enough people downtown. Why aren't there enough people downtown? Because there aren't enough places open/to eat/to do/ to shop.

What downtown needs, and is slowly getting more of, is residents. The more people live there, the more they need necessities, the more places will stay open etc etc. You yourself said that .1% of Phoenix in Phoenix would want to live in an urban setting, which my figures suggest is about 4,200 people. Build 10 buildings, fill them up, and let's see what happens.

Someone has to take the leap and that's the tricky part. People want to live downtown (at least some, I'm sure even you can at least agree to that) but then they think, why live downtown if I still have to drive to a grocery store or to do some shopping or to go to Target or whatever else they may want to do? The point of living downtown is to be able to do these things without your car. So then you think develops should take the first step and build it "and they will come", at least that's what you hope, but the problem is that it doesn't happen that fast. You may open a grocery store, but you'll need thousands or residents to support it and that could happen, after a few years. In that time though, that store is struggling and eventually closes. And you're back to square one.

No one is saying build stuff just to build stuff, I don't know where you are getting that. We, at least me, are saying build things out of necessity, and I see a need for more residential buildings, judging by the vacancy rate of current rental properties downtown.

I presume that the stores downtown aren't just intended for people who live there. I would imagine that the development is meant to attract people from all over the Valley, visitors, convention-goers, downtown workers, and downtown residents. The stores cannot even maintain business pulling from all these segments. The condo project downtown failed, which will likely leave prospective developers from building more. We don't need to build 10 more buildings to "see what happens." That's not a smart business move. If one project failed, why do we need 10 more to fail too? If they were to be built and then failed, then what? Now we have 10 more empty buildings sitting downtown.

I said that 99.9% of Valley residents live in low density apartments and houses, which clearly is an understatement. Clearly more like 99.97% of people here live in low density apartments and housing.

If developers saw promise in downtown, they would be putting in high rise apartments. That's just not happening.

[HX_Guy]

I don't understand it how 44 Monroe failed as an apartment building, which is what I said I think we need more of.
What is you definition of failure if the building is at 100% occupancy? Did it fail as a condo building? Absolutely. But how did or is it failing as an apartment building? What would you consider not failing?

[stevewarner]

I'm rather surprised Downtown Phoenix didn't take off more than it did. Quite frankly that doesn't always mean everything. You have Downtown Scottsdale which more than makes up for it-----just a short drive away from the main parts of Phoenix, you can stroll along the waterfront any time of day, eat or drink at 2 in the morning and see people walking around on the streets late at night.

It's sort of this way in many Ca cities too. L.a. area has lots of mini Downtowns that are active and energized. Downtown L.a. tends to close down late at night but then there's a short drive to Hollywood where it's very urban and never seems empty. West L.a. and Santa Monica have great nightlife. Pasadena is a business hub.

So you see, having one big happenin' hoppin' Downtown doesn't always work. I think Downtown Phoenix could really use some better nightlife, shopping, pubs, lots of things to improve the vibe but when there's Scottsdale and Tempe so close maybe it's best to have several smaller active Downtowns instead of one big centralized hub.

Just my 2 cents worth, thanks.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by stevewarner

I'm rather surprised Downtown Phoenix didn't take off more than it did. Quite frankly that doesn't always mean everything. You have Downtown Scottsdale which more than makes up for it-----just a short drive away from the main parts of Phoenix, you can stroll along the waterfront any time of day, eat or drink at 2 in the morning and see people walking around on the streets late at night.

It's sort of this way in many Ca cities too. L.a. area has lots of mini Downtowns that are active and energized. Downtown L.a. tends to close down late at night but then there's a short drive to Hollywood where it's very urban and never seems empty. West L.a. and Santa Monica have great nightlife. Pasadena is a business hub.

So you see, having one big happenin' hoppin' Downtown doesn't always work. I think Downtown Phoenix could really use some better nightlife, shopping, pubs, lots of things to improve the vibe but when there's Scottsdale and Tempe so close maybe it's best to have several smaller active Downtowns instead of one big centralized hub.

Just my 2 cents worth, thanks.

Well-written.

Downtown Phoenix isn't perfect but it has improved tremendously since I moved here in 1996.

Other downtowns exist around the valley that pick up what Phoenix lags behind in. Tempe has the most active downtown-urban core followed by Scottsdale.