Phoenix Low Wages (Scottsdale, Ajo: extended stay, best cities, apartment)

[uconn99]

Home to 3 (soon to be 4) of the Fortune 500 companies

That is nothing to be proud of and is pathetic for a city the size of Phoenix.


Back on topic, Phoenix I feel does have low paying jobs for the cost of living now. Phoenix is no cheaper than a lot of areas of the North East now. I am in sales and I don't have a problem finding a well paying job. At 25 I will almost make 50k this year without a college degree working for a Fortune 100 company.

[Solere]

I know all about Adam Smith, Milton Friedman and other laissez faire economic policies. Fife Symington and Jane Hull implemented them in the 1990s and now we are reaping the consequences of them. I agree with the poster about hard work. I worked a whole bunch of overtime in call centers and while it was definitely appreciated by the supervisors, most coworkers thought I was crazy for working so much and they told me directly they would never work overtime--even those who had no other commitments. Tells you a lot about the workforce in this state and I am a native Arizonan. There have been opportunities where I could have risen up to a higher level/pay, but at the expense of being around high school educated supervisors who probably wouldn't have appreciated by ideas, opinions, theories on how to change things. I was raised and educated in an environment that promoted dissent and the discussion of ideas. I'm not trying to be elitist or aloof, but when you are on a higher intellectual plain in this state than others, people are wary of you and in the workplace in AZ, using your liberal arts background to propose dialogue is not encouraged. It seems like you must adhere strictly to rules and common sense and discussion of different ideas and ways to make things better are not encouraged in this state. Breaks are definitely cliquish. If you don't smoke, you're definitely the oddball. I was friendly to everyone at the office and everyone was cordial and liked me a lot for my work performance, but were reluctant to go beyond hello during lunch and 15 minute breaks. So many of those were spent alone wandering the parking lot. Just stating my honest opinion about my experiences in metro Phoenix.

[alterego]

Phoenix does have jobs that pay very well...you just need the right work experience and education to have one of those jobs. I agree with Greatday--maybe your degree is not a good fit for Phoenix. There are many business degree holders in this city (I am one of them), but most of us (me included) have at least and MBA or higher. And the engineers that I know will often have a Master's degree or higher. These days a bachelor's degree is just not enough to get you that high-paying job. Just take a look at the job postings that have the salary range that you desire, and then take a look at the qualifications they are seeking.

[Solere]

I don't want to venture too far off topic here, but do you think the time/cost of an MBA is worth the difference in pay? I've heard that in order to get a high paying jobs from a well respected firm, you need to have a degree from a Top 10 school and ASU WP Carey School of Business is not one of them. What are the starting salaries from ASU WP Carey? Since the days of affordable college tuition are gone, unfortunately one has to look at things from a pure cost-benefit standpoint vs personal enrichment. How much more does an MBA pay in metro Phoenix vs a Bachelors Degree?

[Huckleberry3911948]

Originally Posted by Happs

Before anyone moves to Phoenix, please understand here that wages are very low, to the point where it might not be financially advantageous to do so. To those that live here permanently, it's time to start protesting low wages. I think middle and lower middle class workers (< $40,000 yr) in the Phoenix metropolitan area should start engaging in peaceful, law abiding protests that communicate to business leaders that workers in this town will no longer tolerate platry wages. Phoenix is no longer an inexpensive place to live like it used to be, and those who move here under this illusion that's "it's so cheap to live out there, who cares if most jobs pay under $10 an hour" are in for a rude awakening. Companies in Phoenix are exploiting the business and tax friendly nature of this state. Whether I'm employed or not, I look at the employment ads regularly and in the past 10 years in Phoenix, wages for most middle and lower income jobs have remained stagnant and in some cases have declined, while inflation and the cost of living continue to soar. Furthermore, because the Phoenix metro area is so crime ridden, living in a safe neighborhood, requires a rent that's on par with a similar safe neighorhood in San Diego or Orange Counties. In other words, in order to escape crime and unsavory people in this town, you have to rent in an upper class area, whereas in CA, you can feel safe in a middle class neighborhood because the crime rate is a lot lower. Check city-data.com for statistics and they will surprise you.
I think workers in this state should start boycotts and ingenious forms or law-abiding protests, info campaigns etc to tell companies that you can't live on less than $12 an hour here in metro Phoenix and that given the working conditions most employers in the valley offer and the cost of living, the new floor for most semi-skilled work should be $15 an hour. Tell CEO's they will reclaim any loss in profit by having a more happy, healthy and productive workforce, which will raise efficiency and negate any profit loss. I think it's time we start to change Arizona's reputation as a low wage state. Imagine if hundreds of thousands of people made a small sacrifice and didn't attend work for a couple days to send a message to employers about wage exploitation. What if tend of thousands of college students decided they weren't going to enroll in college because they don't see a return on their tuition and time investment, since most non engineering college grads in this town probably make less than $15 an hour. Tell employers to start rewarding a college degree since roughly only 25% of adults in the country posess one. Let's start valuing education and W2 work in this state. Let's start demanding that Phoenix metro area employers raise wages!!

there was no request for a resonse so i gave none. good post rep for you.

[LadmoFan]

Happs,

I started out life in a trailer park in north Phoenix, attended college on grants, worked all the way through school, and finally married an engineer. Life was never easy, still isn't all that easy, but through hard work we are self sufficient. Far from rich but comfortable.

Having a degree in Economics is not an easy major to find employment with. It has absolutely nothing to do with binging on a "intellectual plain". What makes a difference is what your degree and skills offer a potential employer. Most likely an Economics degree is a degree that requires both a masters and doctoral degrees as it is one of those degrees used at the university level. I know of few economists working in the private sector. Perhaps you could inquire at a stock broker firm or something like that for work.

Don't feel bad though as most English majors have difficulty finding work. They usually end up as administrative assistants or secretaries unless they complete graduate work. I was lucky as I ended up working for a newspaper and was able to use my major.

LadmoFan

[alterego]

Originally Posted by Happs

I don't want to venture too far off topic here, but do you think the time/cost of an MBA is worth the difference in pay? I've heard that in order to get a high paying jobs from a well respected firm, you need to have a degree from a Top 10 school and ASU WP Carey School of Business is not one of them. What are the starting salaries from ASU WP Carey? Since the days of affordable college tuition are gone, unfortunately one has to look at things from a pure cost-benefit standpoint vs personal enrichment. How much more does an MBA pay in metro Phoenix vs a Bachelors Degree?

ASU has a great MBA program especially when you factor in cost of living and tuition compared to other schools that are ranked higher. Here is a link to ASU MBA's latest employment stats: Employment Profile - MBA Full-time - W. P. Carey School of Business. The two highest paying concentrations are Supply Chain and Marketing with starting pays at over $100K on the high side and about $82K as an average. Most jobs will also have a signing bonus with as much as $45K and average of about $15K. IMO, that is not bad for a non-top tier school!

My biggest recommendation to you if you do want to go back for an MBA is to go back full-time. I've heard this time and time again from professors as well as employers. The full-time students get the higher pay because the perception is that the full-time students are more focused and serious about it. The part-time students are often torn between their full-time jobs and fitting in school when they can (nights and weekends). Also, make sure you have at least 2 years of full-time work experience before applying. Five is the average and the most preferred. Five just seems to be that magic number of having just enough work experience to get you a higher paying job when you graduate but still young enough to have the energy and will to climb that corporate ladder (and put in the long hours too).

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by Greatday

AZ does have "decent" wages -

And, as for "at will" - the correct term is "right to work state" - a good thing

God knows nobody's ever accused me of being agreeable... , but was in a hurry, felt generous, and gave you the benefit of the doubt for a moment.

OK, I stand corrected. The two terms are entirely different, which was my initial inclination anyway.

Unless a contract of employment exists or an employee is a member of a union, an employee's term of employment is usually considered to be "at will." Generally, at-will employees may be fired without just cause. In fact, the termination of an at-will employee's job does not have to be supported by a good reason or by any reason at all. At-will employees are also free to resign their positions at any time. Several exceptions, however, exist to this general rule.

At-Will Employment

Apparently there is some small print here for whoever is interested, but I don't plan to get into it.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf

Arizona Right to Work Law
[NOTE: State laws are in a constant state of flux. Before relying on the text of any state Right to Work statute, you should check the most recent edition of your state laws.]

Ariz. Const. art. XXV
Right to work or employment without membership in labor organization

No person shall be denied the opportunity to obtain or retain employment because of non-membership in a labor organization, nor shall the State or any subdivision thereof, or any corporation, individual or association of any kind enter into any agreement, written or oral, which excludes any person from employment or continuation of employment because of non-membership in a labor organization. (Addition approved election Nov. 5, 1946, eff. Nov. 25, 1946; amended November 30, 1982.)

Arizona Right to Work Law - National Right to Work Foundation

In any event, the topic of the discussion was not the legalities. The OP was talking about the low wages in AZ, which is not a debatable issue (proven by numerous statistics), unless having higher median wage than Mississippi and Alabama (lol, not by much really) makes somebody proud.

Bankruptcy Median Wage by State by Family Size

march2000

Granted, the discussion was about Phoenix alone, but I don't feel you were making a point about that. The picture is somewhat better in Phoenix,

The Phoenix area median income in 2002
was $57,900.

http://www.nhc.org/pdf/chp_landscape2007_facts_phoenix.pdf (broken link)

but still below the national average.

From my background, using salary surveys for years, we would typically see Phoenix maybe 3 percent below national average. That was always OK because we knew that housing was so much lower.

Analyst: Housing costs eclipsing wage growth (http://www.azcentral.com/home/hb101/articles/0425wagewatch0425.html - broken link)

[londonbarcelona]

Then, we have a very educated populace in Arizona - VERY educated.

HA HA HA HA. You're joking of course. Counting the snowbirds and retirees as part of the educated population doesn't count.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

Happs,

Check out this AZ Republic piece, if you haven't seen it. It's from last week, and has 3 segments realted to your post.

Phoenix must evolve or face economic consequences

I agree with what you are saying, but lots of people will reply to your concerns with a "get the he** out then".

I know people on the Morrison Institute Committee and one of Phoenix's biggest obstacles is trying to stop the "brain-drain" that is happening here. Brain-drain usually only happens in areas that have a declining population! As much as Phoenix has jobs and a growing population, very few people are coming into the area that are highly educated. The jobs being created (and there are thousands of them, our unemployment is very low) are geared toward people with only a high school education. Many of our college graduates are actually having to move away to find suitable work. I find the entire thing strange.