Moving out of Phoenix (Mesa: home, live, zip code)

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by azsundevil

Alot of suburbs in America have restrictions on chain stores. That doesn't seem to be the case around here except for Paradise Valley proper. I thought Scottsdale would be more picky since they consider themselves as "upscale".

Scottsdale has restrictions on signs that force many chain stores to deviate from their normal store templates. I am not familiar with any communities that outright ban chain stores. In fact, I think there could be substantial legal challenges to such a policy. It's more typical to adopt zoning restrictions that make a community less attractive to chains.

Paradise Valley doesn't have chain stores because it has virtually no stores at all -- independents or chains. With the exception of resorts, country clubs, and churches, PV is almost entirely residential in its zoning. The assumption is that if you live in Paradise Valley, you will drive to Phoenix or Scottsdale for all retail needs. The only retail I can think of in PV is a design store or two in an anomalous strip mall on Lincoln.

Personally, I like independent, locally owned stores when they offer interesting products and good value. Independent restaurants, CD stores, bookstores, etc. are often preferable to chains. On the other hand, there are some things that chains do better due to their buying power. Regardless of which type of store is preferred, laws governing retail zoning should be uniform in their treatment of independent and chain stores. Everyone should play by the same rules, and those stores that cultivate customer loyalty will be the ones to thrive.

[Robin Murphy]

I'm interested in seeing your list.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Robin Murphy

I'm interested in seeing your list.

Which list? Can you clarify?

[joninaz]

Originally Posted by azsundevil

Alot of suburbs in America have restrictions on chain stores. That doesn't seem to be the case around here except for Paradise Valley proper. I thought Scottsdale would be more picky since they consider themselves as "upscale".

I'm not aware of any or many communities that have banned chains outright. I'd also guess most courts would find that to be illegal, if the city allows similar retail/dining zoning. From what I can tell, communities that have actively sought to restrict chains have done so through size restrictions. Many have capped store sizes across the board, effectively discouraging big box stores, which makes sense in many places.

In any case, I'm really happy with the thinking behind the new Waterfront area in Old Town Scottsdale. Fred Unger is building a $250 Million
development with a bunch of new restaurants, no chains, at all price points. These are being designed by folks like Peter Kasperski (Cowboy Chow, Kazimierz Wine Bar), James Beard winner Nobu Fukuda (Sea Saw) and Catherine Hayes (La Grande Orange).

There will also be 25 locally owned shops, again catering to all budgets. They are spending a lot more than needed to have unique architecture. For those craving an area where you can stroll, shop, dine, nibble, or not spend a dime - this will be a nice, core destination. I hope it does well and the concept spreads.

Check out the current New Times Article:
Phoenix - News - Walking on Water

[alterego]

Originally Posted by silverbear

Paradise Valley doesn't have chain stores because it has virtually no stores at all -- independents or chains. With the exception of resorts, country clubs, and churches, PV is almost entirely residential in its zoning. The assumption is that if you live in Paradise Valley, you will drive to Phoenix or Scottsdale for all retail needs. The only retail I can think of in PV is a design store or two in an anomalous strip mall on Lincoln.

You are so right. I never even noticed how there are no stores/businesses in Paradise Valley...just a few restaurants and resorts. And I know exactly which little strip mall you are talking about on Lincoln. If it's the same one that you're talking about, it's on Lincoln and 32nd St. There's a Loemann's, Edu Fit, At One Yoga, and L'Amore Cafe there. I just looked up a few of the stores in that mall, and the addresses are all Phoenix.

[azsundevil]

Originally Posted by silverbear

Scottsdale has restrictions on signs that force many chain stores to deviate from their normal store templates. I am not familiar with any communities that outright ban chain stores. In fact, I think there could be substantial legal challenges to such a policy. It's more typical to adopt zoning restrictions that make a community less attractive to chains.

Zoning restrictions are the key to making communities less appealing to chains. Therefore, many towns make it extremely difficult for chains to open up. Some do have criteria that makes it impossible for certain types of chains, such as fast food or big box stores, to open in their community. This is what suprised me about AZ. Standing on the corner of FLW/101, you wouldn't know if you were in Scottsdale, Chandler, Glendale or Goodyear. I'm glad to see the Waterfront project in Scottsdale take off. Hopefully, other communities will follow suit and deviate from the big power centers that are on so many valley street corners.

[azsundevil]

Originally Posted by joninaz

I'm not aware of any or many communities that have banned chains outright. I'd also guess most courts would find that to be illegal, if the city allows similar retail/dining zoning. From what I can tell, communities that have actively sought to restrict chains have done so through size restrictions. Many have capped store sizes across the board, effectively discouraging big box stores, which makes sense in many places.

This reminded me of a small Bay Area suburb that I used to live in. When I first moved there I thought they were too good for fast food since it was an affluent community yet they had their own mom and pop type fast food places. It was so funny when my neighbor showed me the city code that stated "a restaurant that offers food and beverages, or either one, for sale to a customer in a motor vehicle for consumption off site is prohibited" Starbucks is there but it has been successful in keeping out McDonalds and other fast food chains. Guess no one has ever contested the legality of it.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by alterego

You are so right. I never even noticed how there are no stores/businesses in Paradise Valley...just a few restaurants and resorts. And I know exactly which little strip mall you are talking about on Lincoln. If it's the same one that you're talking about, it's on Lincoln and 32nd St. There's a Loemann's, Edu Fit, At One Yoga, and L'Amore Cafe there. I just looked up a few of the stores in that mall, and the addresses are all Phoenix.

Actually that shopping center is within Phoenix city limits since it's on the west side of 32nd St. The one I was referring to is on Lincoln east of Tatum and houses one or two interior design stores.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by azsundevil

This reminded me of a small Bay Area suburb that I used to live in. When I first moved there I thought they were too good for fast food since it was an affluent community yet they had their own mom and pop type fast food places. It was so funny when my neighbor showed me the city code that stated "a restaurant that offers food and beverages, or either one, for sale to a customer in a motor vehicle for consumption off site is prohibited" Starbucks is there but it has been successful in keeping out McDonalds and other fast food chains. Guess no one has ever contested the legality of it.

This is basically a ban on drive-thrus, and it was probably perfectly legal when adopted since it applied across the board to all businesses, both independents and chains. Although I don't like drive-thrus and seldom use them, I have too much of a free market streak in me to want to see them banned outright, and I don't think a ban in Arizona would be feasible due to proposition 207, which essentially bans changes in law that might diminish the value of property. My approach is to support the independent businesses that I like and to do my best to publicize them when they deliver good products and services. Legal restrictions, except as needed for public safety, seem too restrictive to me and are politically infeasible in the current climate.

[_Charles_]

Phoenix is actually a nice place for a variety of reasons. Hello it’s the Sonoran desert the heat and dust are a given not a surprise.

I think two main factors cause the Valley to get maligned by new residents.

First many expect Phoenix to be the pot of gold at the end of their rainbow. Such expectations are unrealistically high and folks set themselves up for disappointment.

Second many new comers have no experience being new comers. They spent a lifetime experiencing all the social support systems that come with family nearby and having long term friends in some cases dating back to childhood. They take these things for granted and expect the same support systems to just appear as if by magic when they get to AZ. Whereas reality dictates that building social networks requires, time work and patience.