South Mountain Freeway on Gila River tribal land effort dead

[Steve Pickering]

Ahwatukee would be a good place for it, and the Sovereign Nation thing is more of a myth than fact. But they are mostly self governing.

[new2colo]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Let's talk reality, that freeway is not getting built because opponents to it can essentially put any effort through a maze of legal challenges that will never be overcome. A more realistic approach is making a multi-lane freeway out of 85 like he/she suggested.

The freeway will likely get built. Freeway opponents have little standing in their arguments for why the freeway shouldn't be built. An environmental impact statement fully documenting all environmental, cultural, and social effects from the freeway is complete. This was a result of analysis that took more than 10 years and millions of dollars. Sure, there will be lawsuits. As long as Arizona DOT and the Federal Highway Administration show that all alternatives for the freeway (including no build) were included in their analysis and that they followed all steps required in the environmental process, the freeway will get built.

[43north87west]

How do you get that idea? I don't think you understand how this works. GRIC is not violating anything, and it's not obligated to "take" the 202 South Mountain freeway. The ADOT would be obligated to hear GRIC's proposal if GRIC volunteered to lease land upon which a freeway could be built. Which, it appears, they aren't volunteering. No Supreme Court case here.

What it really amounts to is, the GRIC doesn't trust Pangea. Not that they should. They're not stupid either, and realize that the success of any master development plans for land south of Pecos Rd., has no bearing on whether the proposed freeway is placed through reservation land, or just north of it on Pecos Rd. It's probably better for the GRIC to let the freeway is placed north of the reservation on Pecos. Then the land south of Pecos could be developed more cleanly than if a freeway bisected it.

The rest of OP's post is classic. Send in the military for what purpose? This isn't Afghanistan. It's funny that when the local reservation refuses to have a freeway dumped on their land, the local NIMBYs suddenly don't like it as much as they did before. I also don't blame the Ahwatukee NIMBYs either--I'd be one of them if I still lived there. I still don't want the thing cutting through a corner of South Mountain or trashing the areas adjacent to Pecos. Frankly, a big chunk of Ahwatukee is going to get the short end of the stick on this deal, and residents there are also not stupid.

With mounting legal challenges and neighbors who are suddenly not too happy about having an 8-lane freeway in their backyard, it's not looking good for this project.

[Ztonyg]

What's funny is that the Gila River tribe just expanded the Vee Quiva Casino, in part, due to the expectation that the freeway would run right by it. They're almost shooting themselves in the foot.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Sprawl is OK to a point, but not when businesses constantly move to the suburbs & leave the downtown or Central Corridor areas practically dead. Actually, a decent mix of sprawl and infill projects are the best for any economy. The bad thing about our type of sprawl is it's largely hit & miss, which tends to promote more exurban growth, but leave large areas in between with undeveloped land. This just makes things even more far reaching for many people. Me personally, I'd rather see every single vacant lot developed in the established areas before any further annexation or exurban sprawl takes place.

But since sprawl is going to happen regardless, that's when more freeways need to be built. As for the South Mountain extension of the Loop 202, I say ENOUGH STALLING! This thing has been on the books for nearly 30 years, voted on & approved by the public twice, so it needs to go through. All the NIMBYs, preservationists, and eco freaks should just back off and let it be built (even if it ends up cutting through part of South Mountain).

As for highway 85, ADOT is already making that into a divided highway and a partial freeway at some points between I10 & I8. Let that become a fully divided highway, and still build the South Mountain Freeway. In fact, I wouldn't even have a problem with that part of the 202 becoming a toll road. It would still serve as a Phoenix bypass route, except people would pay the extra fee to drive on it. Why not? Toll roads tend to be built at a faster rate than state or federally funded highways, so that alone would speed up the construction & reduce the costs to taxpayers.

With regard to sprawl, it's about supply and demand. If the properties in the interior are quality, people won't depart for the distal properties. I don't blame sprawl for that.

I love the idea of a toll road but that won't solve anything. The Native Americans don't care about any type of road going through their land be it toll or non-toll. And a toll road doesn't fix people's houses from being uprooted. It's a no win situation at this point. Perhaps at a later date, a toll road will appeal to the Native Americans and allow us to build on their land with the tolls going to their community. I can see that happening with further generations being more progressive.

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

But since sprawl is going to happen regardless, that's when more freeways need to be built. As for the South Mountain extension of the Loop 202, I say ENOUGH STALLING! This thing has been on the books for nearly 30 years, voted on & approved by the public twice, so it needs to go through. All the NIMBYs, preservationists, and eco freaks should just back off and let it be built (even if it ends up cutting through part of South Mountain).

That's why I think this project is dead, as far as the Pecos Rd. alignment goes. Because it has been on the books for 30 years, and because so much of Ahwatukee has been developed during that time, the exposure to legal challenges has ballooned. Today, there are a number of schools within throwing distance of Pecos Rd, and those schools weren't there when the project was originally planned. This raises a huge emergency response issue--and that's only one of many legal challenges that will probably derail the project. For each year that things are tied up, legal objections are going to continue to mount, as time goes on and regulations get tighter.

IMO, the only way to revitalize the project is to get GRIC's interest again, which won't happen with the current cast of characters.