Sky Harbor Terminal 3 expansion - still necessary? (Phoenix, Mesa: fit in, moving)

[Pink Jazz]

For those who didn't know, there are plans to expand Terminal 3 at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.

Here are the phases:

• The first phase will widen both of the security checkpoints. This will likely include the addition of body scanners, which currently don't fit in the existing security checkpoints.
• The second phase has several parts. One of them is the expansion of the concessions area in the North Concourse. In addition, there will be a reconfiguration of the ticketing counters and baggage claim areas. Currently, both ticketing and the baggage claim are on the same level. This phase of expansion will place them on separate levels (similar to the layout of Terminal 4), moving ticketing to the second level of the terminal.
• The third phase will be a complete redevelopment of the South Concourse, which will have nine more gates than the existing South Concourse, completely replacing Terminal 2.

However, with the American/US Airways merger, I am actually wondering if the expansion will be necessary, particularly the third phase. While I don't expect PHX will be reduced to a mere spoke after three years, there still could be some cuts by American and PHX may be reduced to a focus city. If PHX is reduced to a focus city, perhaps there will be available gate space at Terminal 4 to accommodate the Terminal 2 airlines.

What does anyone here think?

[azriverfan.]

I don't see how anyone could argue that we need to reduce the size of Sky Harbor. They are getting rid of Terminal 2 so of course Terminal 3 needs to be expanded. Honestly, for a city of this size with no competing 2nd airport, we need a bigger airport. Phoenix is going to become a 5 million metro city within the next 10 years. And in 20 years, we are realistically looking at 6 million people in the metro and you want to not expand Terminal 3? Okay

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I don't see how anyone could argue that we need to reduce the size of Sky Harbor. They are getting rid of Terminal 2 so of course Terminal 3 needs to be expanded. Honestly, for a city of this size with no competing 2nd airport, we need a bigger airport. Phoenix is going to become a 5 million metro city within the next 10 years. And in 20 years, we are realistically looking at 6 million people in the metro and you want to not expand Terminal 3? Okay

The problem is: What will be the eventual fate of US Airways' hub here now that they have merged with American? Some (not all) of that traffic can be shifted to either DFW or LAX, so there is no guarantee that the new American Airlines will maintain their current hub operation here at PHX. As stated, while I don't expect they will reduce PHX to a mere spoke, there is a possibility that PHX may be reduced to a focus city.

[Ztonyg]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I don't see how anyone could argue that we need to reduce the size of Sky Harbor. They are getting rid of Terminal 2 so of course Terminal 3 needs to be expanded. Honestly, for a city of this size with no competing 2nd airport, we need a bigger airport. Phoenix is going to become a 5 million metro city within the next 10 years. And in 20 years, we are realistically looking at 6 million people in the metro and you want to not expand Terminal 3? Okay

The argument is that there likely will not bee the need for as many gates in the future. Southwest has had a stagnant operation at Sky Harbor for at least 10 years (and bought Airtran in the process). United and Continental have merged and offer fewer flights now as a combined entity than they did when they were two separate carriers. Delta and Northwest have merged and offer fewer flights now as a combined entity than they did when they were two separate carriers.

It is a known fact amongst anyone with any knowledge of the situation (pretty much anyone except local politicians) that American Airlines / US Airways is going to significantly cut their operation after the 3 year moratorium on cuts that they signed to get the deal passed ends. Less flights = less need for gate space = less need for an expansion.

In all honesty, after the AA/US cuts go through, Terminal 3 and Terminal 4 in their current state (with a closed Terminal 2) will be more than adequate.

[Ztonyg]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

The problem is: What will be the eventual fate of US Airways' hub here now that they have merged with American? Some (not all) of that traffic can be shifted to either DFW or LAX, so there is no guarantee that the new American Airlines will maintain their current hub operation here at PHX. As stated, while I don't expect they will reduce PHX to a mere spoke, there is a possibility that PHX may be reduced to a focus city.

American Airlines and US Airways currently provide 270 daily departures to 77 destinations.

I'd anticipate a realistic operational size once the cuts go through will be something akin to 135 daily departures to 40 destinations.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Ztonyg

The argument is that there likely will not bee the need for as many gates in the future. Southwest has had a stagnant operation at Sky Harbor for at least 10 years (and bought Airtran in the process). United and Continental have merged and offer fewer flights now as a combined entity than they did when they were two separate carriers. Delta and Northwest have merged and offer fewer flights now as a combined entity than they did when they were two separate carriers.

It is a known fact amongst anyone with any knowledge of the situation (pretty much anyone except local politicians) that American Airlines / US Airways is going to significantly cut their operation after the 3 year moratorium on cuts that they signed to get the deal passed ends. Less flights = less need for gate space = less need for an expansion.

In all honesty, after the AA/US cuts go through, Terminal 3 and Terminal 4 in their current state (with a closed Terminal 2) will be more than adequate.

Southwest has grown and increased flights over the past 10 years and has not remained stagnant. The argument is that Southwest would likely increase their market share to compensate for the reduced number of flights by AA/US. Furthermore, with the increase in population, there will other carriers that will arrive to offer service such as Virgin America and even some international carriers. The reality is a 5-6 million population is going to attract other carriers because that's too many people to ignore. Ultimately, we will need space to meet this demand.

[azdr0710]

Sky Harbor's website on it.....click on the 4:30 long youtube near upper right......

Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport

[youthinkso]

Just because one airline is cutting flights doesn't mean SH will dry up and blow away in the desert. It may no longer be a hub for AA but it is still a destination point from many flights out of the north. Air Canada (Rouge) has added direct daily flights from YYC to PHX starting in December. These empty gates slots are being picked over by other airlines. That means we will have 42 direct flights a week from YYC to PHX.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I don't see how anyone could argue that we need to reduce the size of Sky Harbor. They are getting rid of Terminal 2 so of course Terminal 3 needs to be expanded. Honestly, for a city of this size with no competing 2nd airport, we need a bigger airport. Phoenix is going to become a 5 million metro city within the next 10 years. And in 20 years, we are realistically looking at 6 million people in the metro and you want to not expand Terminal 3? Okay

Even though there isn't a competing airport, Phoenix/Mesa Gateway counts as a reliever airport. But in any case, Sky Harbor does need to expand. I'm glad they are finally going to get rid of Terminal 2 because it's outdated and no longer serves the needs. Expanding T3 is going to be necessary ... and it really makes much more sense to expand T3 & eventually T4 instead of building a separate T5. The linking of SkyTrain which will eventually extend to T3 is also going to be an added amenity.

[exit2lef]

Keep in mind that the T3 expansion is vastly scaled back compared to previous plans to build a brand new "West Terminal" that might have rivaled T4 in size. Sky Harbor's most ambitious expansion plans, formulated before the housing crash / recession and the US Airways / American merger, called for a lot more than what is actually being built in the near future.