whats the real south? (Phoenix: company, winter, single)

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by traveler guy

Actually the saying is the east ends in Dallas and the west begins in Fort worth. So close yet so far.

This is true, and from a cultural and historical perspective, makes the most sense. Some misconceptions exist concerning that nickname "Where the West Begins" as concerns Ft. Worth. It was never intended to mean anything like "The South Stops here." Anymore than St. Louis "Gateway to the West" meant one was leaving the Midwest. The "West" was not thought of as a single coherent cultural region per se (and it still isn't today), but simply a largely unsettled half of the country different in many ways from the "East."

In fact, most of those early cattle barons were former Confederate soldiers, and what the nickname really was intended to impart was that Ft. Worth was a Boom Town entryway to a new part of the larger South itself, one of new opportunities and all...the "Western South" if you will (to use that term again!) as distinguished from the "Old South" of cotton plantation country.

Those settlers in Ft. Worth, and far as that goes, that went on to settle West Texas at large were largely migrants from the southeast looking to get a new start, and brought with them their basic culture and folkways. Being in a former sister Confederate State, never thought of themselves as being out of the South per se. In fact, some records, and ads and such in early newspapers will often have references to something like "The Dixie Cattle Company" or whatever!

[njtrom]

That was really interesting.

[sweettearose]

It depends who you ask. People from the deep southern confederate states and Texans themselves don't consider Texas as a part of the South. Texans consider themselves their own separate entity. However,people on the east coast, west coast and midwest all associate Texas with being Southern. It's a part of the Bible belt and is politically conservative. Dallas natives also have noticeable southern accents and even the ones who are more urban still have an accent like Troy Aikman. Many of the most popular country and western singers also hail from Texas which is another trait associated with the south.

Arizona is not southern at all. It's considered a part of the West Coast according to some definitions.
West Coast of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Arizona is also less than 200 miles from California and the Pacific Ocean (Rocky Point). Phoenix definitely feels like southern California while Tucson and the rest of Arizona feel like a mountain state like Wyoming, or Montana. There is nothing southern about Arizona at all.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that while many Texans probably do consider themselves their own identity, many do consider themselves Southern and would take offense if someone said they were not true southerners.

[Southern Soul Bro]

Eastern TX is the south

[sweettearose]

Originally Posted by King_X

Eastern TX is the south

Isn't that the truth. Places like Port Arthur, TX and many suburbs outside Houston are very Southern; they are basically an extension of Louisiana.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by sweettearose

Dallas natives also have noticeable southern accents and even the ones who are more urban still have an accent like Troy Aikman.

Troy Aikman is not a Dallas native. He is not even a Texan. He was born and spent most of his childhood in California. He went to high school in Henryetta Oklahoma where is family moved when he was 12. I don't know where he got the accent. Maybe his mom was a Texan. Maybe it's fake.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by sweettearose

It depends who you ask. People from the deep southern confederate states and Texans themselves don't consider Texas as a part of the South. Texans consider themselves their own separate entity. However,people on the east coast, west coast and midwest all associate Texas with being Southern. It's a part of the Bible belt and is politically conservative. Dallas natives also have noticeable southern accents and even the ones who are more urban still have an accent like Troy Aikman. Many of the most popular country and western singers also hail from Texas which is another trait associated with the south.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that while many Texans probably do consider themselves their own identity, many do consider themselves Southern and would take offense if someone said they were not true southerners

Some very good points here. Yes, and again, while surveys show a sizeable majority of Texans to consider themselves part of the South and be Southerners when it comes to regional affiliation, almost ALL consider themselves and the state to be uniquely Texas and Texans. This in itself is a difference between Texas and many of the other states of the Old Confederacy.

Along those lines, it is also true that many in the deeper South states of the southeast do not really consider Texas "truly Southern" (and the above is likely one of the reasons). At the same time, some of these Deep South "purists" (like a few of my distant kin! LOL) also exclude states like Virginia and Arkansas as well! As you said, it depends on who you ask, and much also depends on ones own experience and perceptions.

The thing you mentioned about many Texans who consider ourselves both Texan and Southern taking "umbrage" at being told otherwise is also on the mark! I hasten to add (at least IMHO) it does NOT stem from a desire to be where we aren't wanted LOL. In fact, would definitely agree that we are not (except for far East Texas) part of the "Southeast" or "Deep South".

However, where the resentment comes in is that, historically speaking, we have as much claim to the label "South and Southern" as any of the other states that made up the Confederacy, because that is really its original definition.

Thanks for some good comments and thoughts!

[navyboy26]

actually the states tht people consider to be the south geographically are southeast. and obviously most of u havent been in ariozona due to the fact tht southern arizona is nothing like wyoming or montana its an desert. northern arizona is mountainous and also has an abundant amount of treses. but still it isnt hilly like wyoming or montana.and also for the record arizona was part of the south during the civil war as proclaimed by president jefferson davis. it was called the conderate territory of Arizona. And texas is southern for all u who think its not its more southern than all the states tht consider themselves " the south"

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Navyboy26,
I was just wondering what you were meaning by conderate? I also have questions with the words tht and ariozona. Also you neglected to capitalize many of the words in your post. My thoughts are that Texas is Texas, Arizona is in the West, and everyone is allowed there opinion of geographical issues. I am just wondering why the Angels are allowed to call themselves the Los Angeles Angeles when they are in Aneheim. If a team is allowed to do it then why not a state.

[Azalea City Man]

Originally Posted by navyboy26

And texas is southern for all u who think its not its more southern than all the states tht consider themselves " the south"

If we are speaking of culture and not geography, Texas is Texas ... and it is not "Southern". IMO, "Southern" is Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Louisiana, Northern Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina. That's it. Well, maybe Arkansas too ... maybe.