Heat Pump Replacement, Phoenix, AZ

[SEERICKS]

I have two 2.5 ton trane heat pumps (packaged units on roof). One unit is about 20yrs old, the second is pushing 17 years old. They are both running OK, but have been contemplating pre-emptive replacement of the older one. I have a feeling it's going to be an insanely hot summer because it's only March and it's already in the mid-90s here (much hotter than usual). Normally I'd let the units break-down before replacement, but we have a newborn at home and don't really want to deal with break-downs in 110 degree heat (and a mad wife, haha). Plus the units will be running a lot more with wife and baby home during the day now. I had heard that heat pumps last 10-15 yrs, with the older units lasting longer. Who knows if that's true.

Anyways, during last servicing our a/c guy quoted $8600 to replace both units with trane XL14c. Includes new stands, elbows, electrical, and a smart/wifi thermostat. Everything. He's a reputable installer and would be willing to do the work for that price this spring before it gets too hot. I guess prices go up during busy season. Replacing one unit would be $4700. I've got some other quotes and they all recommended the same size equipment, ball park pricing (just higher by a couple grand or so). $8600 seems like a good deal, but thought I'd bounce it off this board first since I've never replaced heat pumps before.

BTW replaced all our duct work in attic last summer, that alone made a big difference in the a/c bills!

[DetroitN8V]

The weather in March doesn't determine the weather in July. It doesn't work like that.

[Zippyman]

That's not bad for Trane - you could likely do Goodman units for around $3k each installed. Don't want to start a Ford/Chevy/Dodge thing, but I've had great luck with Goodman units myself.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

That's not bad for Trane - you could likely do Goodman units for around $3k each installed. Don't want to start a Ford/Chevy/Dodge thing, but I've had great luck with Goodman units myself.

The thing to watch out for with Goodman is the installer, not the units themselves. Goodman has a more open sales policy than its competitors, which means they are more accessible to hacks. This is what has hurt Goodman's reputation due to more substandard installs. Major brands such as Carrier, Trane, and Lennox, on the other hand, are only allowed to sell their products to their authorized dealers.

So, if you decide on Goodman, be sure that you are having it installed by a reputable contractor.

[Potential_Landlord]

Thaks for great tips, guys! After this summer season I will do a voluntary replacement too (11 years old).

[SEERICKS]

Thanks for the responses. My old house had a goodman split system heat pump. I started having a lot of issues with it after about 7 years or so. And it was incredible loud, that's the one thing I remember...couldn't even be in the backyard when it was running. Of course, it was a 'builder grade' unit so probably wasn't the best (was a new home). For what it's worth, in addition to my trane quote, I was quoted $4200 ea. for Lennox LRP14 by another company but only with a 5year warranty on parts. I've heard Lennox makes good equipment (esp for split systems). In any event, I'm going with the trane since I've had good luck with them. Another reason I like the trane package units is because they are more low profile. My neighbor installed new Carrier units and they were much too tall so now you can see the tops of the units peaking over the front of the house.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by SEERICKS

Thanks for the responses. My old house had a goodman split system heat pump. I started having a lot of issues with it after about 7 years or so. And it was incredible loud, that's the one thing I remember...couldn't even be in the backyard when it was running. Of course, it was a 'builder grade' unit so probably wasn't the best (was a new home). For what it's worth, in addition to my trane quote, I was quoted $4200 ea. for Lennox LRP14 by another company but only with a 5year warranty on parts. I've heard Lennox makes good equipment (esp for split systems). In any event, I'm going with the trane since I've had good luck with them. Another reason I like the trane package units is because they are more low profile. My neighbor installed new Carrier units and they were much too tall so now you can see the tops of the units peaking over the front of the house.

You seem to have a good price on the Trane and that is what you want, so go for it. A friend of mine is an AC contractor and his beef with Trane, besides that they are overpriced, is that so many of the parts are proprietary making repairs more expensive and potentially delaying them due to availability. Pretty much all the other ones these days use standard, interchangeable compressors, switches, fan motors etc. It has been 5 years or so since we had this conversation so maybe Trane has gotten with the standardized program now too.

The other thing with Trane is that they are sold by Home Depot. Home Depot can offer financing deals that independent contractors can't so many people buy them from HD. HD charges way more than you can get if you do some bidding from contractors. My MIL got gouged good by them on a Trane because she could not pay up front and needed their low but ultimately pricey financing.

[DougStark]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

That's not bad for Trane - you could likely do Goodman units for around $3k each installed. Don't want to start a Ford/Chevy/Dodge thing, but I've had great luck with Goodman units myself.

I've had good luck with Goodman also. I think Trane is over-hyped IMO.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

The thing to watch out for with Goodman is the installer, not the units themselves. Goodman has a more open sales policy than its competitors, which means they are more accessible to hacks. This is what has hurt Goodman's reputation due to more substandard installs. Major brands such as Carrier, Trane, and Lennox, on the other hand, are only allowed to sell their products to their authorized dealers.

So, if you decide on Goodman, be sure that you are having it installed by a reputable contractor.

my parents had a trane installed by a "reputable factory-trained contractor", and the install was awful. It was so bad that when they had it serviced a few years later, the tech asked if they'ed done the install themselves. Dad said, nope - *you* installed it.

I also had problems with an extremely expensive Lennox furnace a few years back. We had no heat for two multi-day periods (20 degree weather) while the "factory trained" techs threw part after part at it & hoped it would magically fix itself.

The hvac business is full of hacks / quacks, charlatans & completely unqualified technicians who expect to get paid like rock-stars for bubble-gum and bailing wire repairs & installs that suck (I've even had bad experiences with NATE certified techs).

My own experiences in the school of hard knocks forced me to learn enough about the trade to do my own sizing calcs, ductwork & installs whenever possible & to take any "advice" given by a hvac "professional" with a fifty-pound block of salt, followed by a shower in scalding-hot water to wash the stank off after dealing with them.

The "warranties" for all the major manufacturers are "parts only" after a year or so- and since the shops/techs doing warranty repairs are poorly trained & have the ability to charge whatever they want for labor, the consumer is often charged hundreds or even thousands of dollars for "covered" repairs.

Hvac is a sleazy business, probably the sleaziest of all the home-repair & contracting businesses (and that's impressive, considering how many drunks / misfits / thieves & goobers seem to call themselves "contractors" of one flavor or another!).

Good luck!, personally, I'd rather have a half-dozen root canals without anesthetic than deal with your average hvac "pro"..

[kell490]

My mother had a trane installed by "Reputable installer" Unfortunately she never told me she was doing this the place she got was just a bunch of fast talking salesmen. The guy even had the nerve to tell her unless she got a service plan her warranty would be void. I went over there afterwards and noticed the coil on the unit had damage down to the copper tubing. The slick talking salesmen showed up and I showed him he tried to tell me how these are handmade and that is just normal business. His company had been recommended by APS who had sent this guy out to do a energy efficiency evaluation on her home. When I told him I work for APS and started throwing out names of people who run that program they would be happy to come to her home and look at the damage he shut his face and told me he needed to call his manager and ran back to his truck to hide. Came back and told me how he was wrong and would replace the unit right away. If you want to see how much your "reputable installer is making off you" check out the website https://www.acwholesalers.com/Air-Co...inCat=&subCat= I have had a goodman for 8 years now cost me $3000 installed 4 ton packaged heatpump. My neighbor was charged $9500 for a trane I could have mine replaced 3 times for what he paid his trane already had a compressor replaced I haven't had any problems with mine I don't even have it serviced except for when I wash the condenser coil out with a hose servicing AC is another gimmick like coil cleaning .

Hidden camera AC repair scams watch the "Reputable installer" at work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK_rkvZeXdU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uji8ACDgVGA