Willo and airplane noise (Phoenix: to live in, costs, flight path)

[kell490]

Watch out for helicopter noise Phoenix Police department operates a fleet of blue and white choppers which are very loud. They buzz up and down 7th street very low rattling windows.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

I knew that you lived there and am aware of where Camelback East is. 36th Street and Indian School is not much more than 4 miles north of the runways. We're not talking about "jet noise from time to time". Just like you, the people over in FQ Story thought that they lived far enough away from the airport that what they would get was "jet noise from time to time". What they are getting now is something quite different. I suggest that you park your car on a side street over there some afternoon or evening and see what they are up against before you resort to name calling. This noise is something that doesn't need to be in ANYBODY's backyard. It used to be over an unpopulated area and needs to go back there.

When I lived in IL, ATC was constantly altering flight paths over the suburbs. I got accustomed to it over time, but its just part of living in a major metropolis. If people are really that upset over jet noise, they simply need to move out further. If you live in a major city with a busy airport, sooner or later youre gonna run into this. Its just part of life. Where Im at in Scottsdale, I RARELY hear them, and when I do, its hardly loud whatsoever. If I lived in closer to Sky Harbor, that would be by my choosing, and I would accept the fact that jet traffic is lower and louder, and subject to change. I dont see what the big deal is. Do these same whiners also complain about buses clogging the roads and spewing diesel fumes?

YOU LIVE IN A BIG, BUSY CITY, PEOPLE. GET USED TO THE SIGHTS AND SOUNDS. IF NOISE IS A CONCERN, MOVE ELSEWHERE. YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW. QUIT MAKING EXCUSES AND DO IT. Let these people do their freaking jobs w/o impeding their progress!

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

When I lived in IL, ATC was constantly altering flight paths over the suburbs. I got accustomed to it over time, but its just part of living in a major metropolis. If people are really that upset over jet noise, they simply need to move out further. If you live in a major city with a busy airport, sooner or later youre gonna run into this. Its just part of life. Where Im at in Scottsdale, I RARELY hear them, and when I do, its hardly loud whatsoever. If I lived in closer to Sky Harbor, that would be by my choosing, and I would accept the fact that jet traffic is lower and louder, and subject to change. I dont see what the big deal is. Do these same whiners also complain about buses clogging the roads and spewing diesel fumes?

YOU LIVE IN A BIG, BUSY CITY, PEOPLE. GET USED TO THE SIGHTS AND SOUNDS. IF NOISE IS A CONCERN, MOVE ELSEWHERE. YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW. QUIT MAKING EXCUSES AND DO IT. Let these people do their freaking jobs w/o impeding their progress!

The noise is not significant in our neighborhood (other than the one incident I described above), but I do believe that the people who are impacted by this have a legitimate concern. It's easy to dismiss if it is not happening to you.

[DougStark]

Dont you poeple get it? jets have become MUCH QUIETER OVER THE YEARS. tHAT'S WHY i MADE MENTION O TURBOJET VS. MODERN TURBOFAN engines.

No major airline flies turojet engine anymore- they're all turbofan engines. The newer aircraft are quieter at takeoff than EVER.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by DougStark

Dont you poeple get it? jets have become MUCH QUIETER OVER THE YEARS. tHAT'S WHY i MADE MENTION O TURBOJET VS. MODERN TURBOFAN engines.

No major airline flies turojet engine anymore- they're all turbofan engines. The newer aircraft are quieter at takeoff than EVER.

Very correct. I watched a new Lufthansa 747-8 take off from O' Hare, and that thing was quieter than a 737, even with 2 more engines. These things are ridiculously quiet, especially the 787!

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

When I lived in IL, ATC was constantly altering flight paths over the suburbs. I got accustomed to it over time, but its just part of living in a major metropolis. If people are really that upset over jet noise, they simply need to move out further. If you live in a major city with a busy airport, sooner or later youre gonna run into this. Its just part of life. Where Im at in Scottsdale, I RARELY hear them, and when I do, its hardly loud whatsoever. If I lived in closer to Sky Harbor, that would be by my choosing, and I would accept the fact that jet traffic is lower and louder, and subject to change. I dont see what the big deal is. Do these same whiners also complain about buses clogging the roads and spewing diesel fumes?

YOU LIVE IN A BIG, BUSY CITY, PEOPLE. GET USED TO THE SIGHTS AND SOUNDS. IF NOISE IS A CONCERN, MOVE ELSEWHERE. YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW. QUIT MAKING EXCUSES AND DO IT. Let these people do their freaking jobs w/o impeding their progress!

These complainers are basically NIMBY types who would likely bellyache about anything & everything. NIMBYism can be found everywhere, but it seems to be rampant here for some reason. People whine about planes & helicopters flying over their homes, they rant about freeway right of ways in their neighborhoods, they gripe about highrises blocking out the sun & mountain views, etc., etc. Seriously, if these are such huge concerns for certain ones, they need to move further out, or go live in a small town where these problems don't exist as much.

Sky Harbor just happens to be a major airport located close to downtown and established areas, so there is going to be jet noise over somebody's neighborhood regardless. This whole argument is similar to the one about the aircraft noise out of Luke AFB, and certain groups in the west Valley are all up in arms about it. We need to ask: who was there first? Luke has been in existence for many decades, and the residents who hate the noise moved there KNOWING about the close proximity of an air base. Same thing with Sky Harbor: it was there long before these complainers moved in!

[nightcrawler]

what no one seems to "get" here is that many people bought homes where the flight patterns were already established for decades, same thing here in Brooklyn NY and all our boroughs.

All of a sudden in 2012 areas that NEVER had any air traffic what so ever all of a sudden, became bombarded with planes flying every 30 seconds all day every day ever since.


Criminal, thats what this is.

It is one thing to move to an area where there is already flight paths established and understand that you will hear and see airplanes all day every day for the rest of your life, BUT, it is another thing that when you did do your due dilligence when purchasing a home, that one year the FAA, as if by divine right can just change flight paths to make a more direct route, which means fly over your neighborhood with an "I don't care" type of attitude, that isn't fair, or right!

so people are not cry babies.

and im also sick of people saying it the city, your expected to hear noise, ok fine, but we can also curb the amount of noise we are to hear. Were not going to allow a jackhammer to be operating at 10pm, now are we.....we have this nextgen to make more precise routes, fine, then make them away from densly populated areas, they can do this, they dont want to.


criminal, this is simply criminal.

[DougStark]

I took off from Sky Harbor recently and noticed the pilot held the throttle at the lowest safe speed possible. I am almost sure he was adhering to reducing jet noise over neighborhoods.

Once we were at a higher altitude, he pushed the throttle up significantly.

[JGMotorsport64]

Are we missing that they changed the flight path? We had an already established and workable one over warehouses and the Salt River that didn't disturb people but now to save money for the airlines (including one that abandoned then screwed us) they shortened the route to fly right over people's homes. Normally I hate the NIMBYs but this one I agree with.

[losadair]

Thanks to those who posted helpful information about the flight path change and the areas affected.

It's depressing to see how often this type of question devolves into name-calling and nasty online behavior, though. Some comments were a little painful to read.

As I mentioned in my original post, I used to live in a neighborhood (different city) affected by a flight path similar to the one now over historic neighborhoods in Phoenix. It was definitely not a question of whining about regular urban noise.... I've lived in cities my whole life. Y'all who don't live in an affected neighborhood probably do not understand the experience.

It's not just hearing jets regularly when you're outdoors walking around. It's 3-5 jets roaring by every five minutes for hours in a row, so close you can read the writing on the bottom. It's a roaring sound, it's your house vibrating, it's things rattling on shelves, it's being unable to talk on the phone or watch TV even with the windows closed....let alone sitting outside by the pool. Neighbors in my previous city did get the noise insulation (after years, after lawsuits, after waiting lists) - it helps, but being stuck indoors isn't fun, and your property values still take a huge hit.

Personally, I never did get used to it. It's a shame that the FAA chose to do this to Phoenix without any kind of transparency or notification.

I just saw a beautiful house listed a little past the south end of Encanto Park, and regretfully I'm going to take a pass.