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It's just the way things are these days. If I said I were from the middle east and I was looking to find a community of others like me, I don't doubt that the same people would have loved to welcome me and my "diversity", while happily pointing me to Tempe.
I agree with you. Any other race/ethnicity/religious affiliation could say "I'd like to live in a predominately [any color but white] neighborhood" and no one would bat an eye.
Let me say that Tempe is a pretty awesome neighborhood. It's getting pretty expensive, though. South Tempe may have fit your needs, too, but taxes are a bit higher because of the good school system.
(I'm kind of sad that my house is up for sale but since I no longer live in the area and renting from far away didn't work out, I have to sell it. I loved Tempe, though.)
I agree with you. Any other race/ethnicity/religious affiliation could say "I'd like to live in a predominately [any color but white] neighborhood" and no one would bat an eye.
Let me say that Tempe is a pretty awesome neighborhood. It's getting pretty expensive, though. South Tempe may have fit your needs, too, but taxes are a bit higher because of the good school system.
(I'm kind of sad that my house is up for sale but since I no longer live in the area and renting from far away didn't work out, I have to sell it. I loved Tempe, though.)
I agree that Tempe is lovely in so many ways, and two of my closest friends live there. Totally not a bad place in any way. It just doesn't tick all of my boxes, currently.
Wow, I had no idea my post would be so controversial! Anyhow, on Saturday evening I posted regarding the best place to live in the PHX area if something were to "hit the fan". I got very little useful advice, but plenty of angry, self-righteous responses. So, to clear up that mess:
First, I wasn't trolling.
Second, I'm, not a "Seagull poster"; rather, I asked my question from my work computer, just before going home. I had the next day off. I'm back. Hi there.
Third, I had no idea my post would generate so many responses. Had I known, I would have checked in from my home computer so I could clear things up.
Fourth, I had no idea this website had so many people upset about even using the acronym for the stuff hitting the fan.
Now, let's try again, this time being, hopefully, easier to understand. I've visited Phoenix many times, but have never lived there. This is probably going to change soon. Since I don't know the cities super well, I thought to seek advice from this site. I'm trying to choose a city in the area that will be comfortable to live in, and relatively safe in times of disaster or depression.
In choosing a neighborhood, I'm seeking the following characteristics:
Middle to Upper Class
Mostly Caucasian
Politically conservative
Not too Mormon
Safer in times of trouble.
If anybody has a sincere suggestion, please share it. If anybody wants to berate me, please just move along so this conversation doesn't derail again. For those who would like to engage me in this conversation, below is the reasoning behind my criteria.
Point 1: We're moving from a wealthy city/area. We've lived in small towns before where the people are largely uneducated. We aren't a good fit in such towns, as we often don't relate to the people. I have nothing against uneducated people, and I think they often have better hearts than do their richer, more educated fellow citizens. It's just that we'd like to have neighbors on a similar socioeconomic stratum, as our standards and interests are more likely to align.
Point 2: We're White. White people don't resent other White people just for being White (unless they're far on the Left). Now, of course, most non-White people ALSO don't resent Whites, but almost all who do are non-White. I simply desire to avoid that conflict.
Point 3: Conservatives tend to have stronger moral principles than do Liberals. In times of disaster or depression, I prefer to live near others who have principles. And guns.
Point 4: While Mormons definitely have plenty of the above, I found when living in Idaho that I did not feel welcomed by the Mormon community. It was like there was an automatic distrust and disdain for non-LDS people. The entire state of Utah also feels this way to me. Again, purely for reasons of comfort, I'd like to live somewhere I feel like I belong. I love Mormons, I just don't want my wife and me to be the only non-LDS couple on our street.
Point 5: Although I'm not a traditional "prepper", I am convinced that America is going down the tubes pretty quickly, and that it's going to be a bumpy ride. Living in a bunker in the woods isn't an attractive option for us, so we'd like to find the safest compromise we can. If, for example, looting does take place on a large scale, it's probably best to live somewhere less accessible to looters, and where fewer of your neighbors will be the ones doing the looting.
If I've left anything out, please feel free to add your advice. If I'm wrong about anything, you're welcome to correct me.
Thank you,
Bjorn
I apologize if I'm being too critical but your above post reads like you're an alarmist and expecting disaster to happen.
I truly resent your assumption about conservatives having stronger morals than liberals. I'm a democrat, slightly on the liberal side but strong family values, moral principles, and freedom are important to me.
Your concerns about looting and rioting are valid but anyone who loots or riots is a common criminal and political affiliation has little or nothing to do with it.
I hope you have found your utopia by now, your later postings read like you have done so. If not I wish you the best of luck in your search.
I apologize if I'm being too critical but your above post reads like you're an alarmist and expecting disaster to happen.
I truly resent your assumption about conservatives having stronger morals than liberals. I'm a democrat, slightly on the liberal side but strong family values, moral principles, and freedom are important to me.
Your concerns about looting and rioting are valid but anyone who loots or riots is a common criminal and political affiliation has little or nothing to do with it.
I hope you have found your utopia by now, your later postings read like you have done so. If not I wish you the best of luck in your search.
Apology accepted! Now, some constructive criticism of my own:
First Paragraph: You're right about my expecting disaster to happen, although the extent to which is happens is still up for debate. If I REALLY thought it would be bad, I would move out of the USA. If that makes me an alarmist, well, I won't try to refute your labeling me so. If you turn out to be right, and there is no need for alarm, I will have lost nothing. If I turn out to be right, you will lose, possibly, everything. Your demise will sadden me, but it will have been your choice. It's not too late to change your mind. Think about it. If you would like some direction, I will be happy to point you toward some good resources.
Second Paragraph: Your use of the word "resent" supports my view. It's liberals' "resentment" that makes them feel justified in punishing others who hold opposing views (or even just those who have something that we don't "deserve"; e.g., "the rich" don't deserve their riches, even when such riches are accumulated through sweat and sacrifice). If troublesome times come, the Liberals will be the ones saying, "Look at those mean, selfish people who are hoarding all the food! Can't they see how hungry I am? Such evil people don't deserve to eat. We need to do the Right Thing and take that food from them and give it to nice people like us!" There's a saying in FEMA: "Society is only nine meals away from anarchy."
Further, your response indicates that you do not think your responses through, but react based on your feelings. When I said "Conservatives tend to have stronger moral principles than do Liberals", you responded as if I had said that you, personally, are immoral. The words "tend to" should have allowed you, a professed moral person, to realize that I wasn't talking about you (although your seemingly judgmental response leads me to believe that you might, after all, safely be lumped together with the Liberals I originally referred to).
Conservatives as I see them just try to live peaceful and productive lives, and we realize that there will always be envious whiners who aren't happy until everyone else is unhappy, and that these people are known collectively as Liberals. Look up r/K selection and politics. It may strengthen your amygdala and your disgust reflex, both of which are important for your and your progeny's survival.
Third Paragraph: How much would you like to bet that violent criminals are no more likely to be liberal than conservative? I hope a lot. Do you have cash or title to property that you are willing to wager?
Fourth Paragraph: There is no Utopia, and I gave up looking for it long ago. I merely try to make wise choices based on objective criteria, with some influence based on my personal tastes. Thank you for your kind wishes, and please know that "luck" isn't a factor.
Apology accepted! Now, some constructive criticism of my own:
First Paragraph: You're right about my expecting disaster to happen, although the extent to which is happens is still up for debate. If I REALLY thought it would be bad, I would move out of the USA. If that makes me an alarmist, well, I won't try to refute your labeling me so. If you turn out to be right, and there is no need for alarm, I will have lost nothing. If I turn out to be right, you will lose, possibly, everything. Your demise will sadden me, but it will have been your choice. It's not too late to change your mind. Think about it. If you would like some direction, I will be happy to point you toward some good resources.
Second Paragraph: Your use of the word "resent" supports my view. It's liberals' "resentment" that makes them feel justified in punishing others who hold opposing views (or even just those who have something that we don't "deserve"; e.g., "the rich" don't deserve their riches, even when such riches are accumulated through sweat and sacrifice). If troublesome times come, the Liberals will be the ones saying, "Look at those mean, selfish people who are hoarding all the food! Can't they see how hungry I am? Such evil people don't deserve to eat. We need to do the Right Thing and take that food from them and give it to nice people like us!" There's a saying in FEMA: "Society is only nine meals away from anarchy."
Further, your response indicates that you do not think your responses through, but react based on your feelings. When I said "Conservatives tend to have stronger moral principles than do Liberals", you responded as if I had said that you, personally, are immoral. The words "tend to" should have allowed you, a professed moral person, to realize that I wasn't talking about you (although your seemingly judgmental response leads me to believe that you might, after all, safely be lumped together with the Liberals I originally referred to).
Conservatives as I see them just try to live peaceful and productive lives, and we realize that there will always be envious whiners who aren't happy until everyone else is unhappy, and that these people are known collectively as Liberals. Look up r/K selection and politics. It may strengthen your amygdala and your disgust reflex, both of which are important for your and your progeny's survival.
Third Paragraph: How much would you like to bet that violent criminals are no more likely to be liberal than conservative? I hope a lot. Do you have cash or title to property that you are willing to wager?
Fourth Paragraph: There is no Utopia, and I gave up looking for it long ago. I merely try to make wise choices based on objective criteria, with some influence based on my personal tastes. Thank you for your kind wishes, and please know that "luck" isn't a factor.
It's certainly your right to believe the way you do and I can respect that.
My belief is it's better to be a little more positive and not surround myself with the disaster-expecting alarmist types because they tend to be on the negative, emotional, and unpleasant side.
Even if there is a disaster, being around cautiously optimistic people makes life much easier than having Chicken Little types nearby who are waiting for the sky to fall and the whole world to crumble.
It's true liberals can be judgmental and resentful but conservatives can certainly be the same way.
Many self-described conservatives are professionals at pinning labels like socialists, leftists, communists, pacifists, tree-huggers, and gun-grabbers on people who have differing viewpoints, and are quick to conclude liberals somehow are whiners and have weaker moral principles.
In my experience I've heard an excessive amount of whining and whimpering from conservatives in the last seven years about who is occupying the White House.
Violent criminals are nothing more than scumbags and what the heck does it matter what their political affiliations are? Would you be more sympathetic to a criminal if he shared your supposed conservative beliefs than liberal ones?
You're right about there being no such thing as a utopia, some of us discovered that fact a long time ago.
I live in a slightly conservative area that's not a utopia but I associate very well with my neighbors regardless of their political, social, religious, or moral views.
Vistancia is a good choice for what you're searching for but if you don't mind a word of advice, I'm thinking your true desired location might be someplace outside the Phoenix area, just something to consider if Vistancia doesn't work out.
I wish you great success in finding peace, happiness, and harmony wherever you decide to live.
Last edited by Java Jolt; 01-22-2016 at 08:47 PM..
Reason: added a thought
It's certainly your right to believe the way you do and I can respect that.
My belief is it's better to be a little more positive and not surround myself with the disaster-expecting alarmist types because they tend to be on the negative, emotional, and unpleasant side.
Even if there is a disaster, being around cautiously optimistic people makes life much easier than having Chicken Little types nearby who are waiting for the sky to fall and the whole world to crumble.
It's true liberals can be judgmental and resentful but conservatives can certainly be the same way.
Many self-described conservatives are professionals at pinning labels like socialists, leftists, communists, pacifists, tree-huggers, and gun-grabbers on people who have differing viewpoints, and are quick to conclude liberals somehow are whiners and have weaker moral principles.
In my experience I've heard an excessive amount of whining and whimpering from conservatives in the last seven years about who is occupying the White House.
Violent criminals are nothing more than scumbags and what the heck does it matter what their political affiliations are? Would you be more sympathetic to a criminal if he shared your supposed conservative beliefs than liberal ones?
You're right about there being no such thing as a utopia, some of us discovered that fact a long time ago.
I live in a slightly conservative area that's not a utopia but I associate very well with my neighbors regardless of their political, social, religious, or moral views.
Vistancia is a good choice for what you're searching for but if you don't mind a word of advice, I'm thinking your true desired location might be someplace outside the Phoenix area, just something to consider if Vistancia doesn't work out.
I wish you great success in finding peace, happiness, and harmony wherever you decide to live.
Thank you for your lovely, reasoned, constructive, and polite response! I agree with everything you wrote, including the discussion of criminals. There are plenty of mean, violent, "conservative" rednecks and hicks out there who love them some crime, too. They, too, are among the people I prefer to live away from.
As for location: Vistancia is about as far into the boonies as I can reasonably settle at the moment. Still have to pay the bills, and can't handle living in small towns. Thus being near Phoenix will help a lot with the business / amenities.
And I'm also with you on the people out there who take their "doomsday prepping" to seriously unpleasant levels. I once met some "conservative" preppers who had a bunker in the woods and plans to storm Wal-Mart with weapons to take all the food and supplies if ever the stuff "hits the fan". I'm not willing to be that selfish; I only want to be smart about things.
If you really want to be in the best Phoenix location in terms of disaster I would argue that Phoenix's worst potential disaster would be a lack of water. Assuming you still want to be in society, the first ring suburbs get priority. This would be Glendale, Phoenix, Mesa, and Scottsdale. Not Tempe, not Paradise Valley, not Gilbert... So live in these four, and you'll be fine.
If you really want to be in the best Phoenix location in terms of disaster I would argue that Phoenix's worst potential disaster would be a lack of water. Assuming you still want to be in society, the first ring suburbs get priority. This would be Glendale, Phoenix, Mesa, and Scottsdale. Not Tempe, not Paradise Valley, not Gilbert... So live in these four, and you'll be fine.
It's SIGNIFICANTLY more complicated than that. Tempe has ample water supplies, any of the inner rings do: Phoenix, Glendale, Mesa, Scottsdale, Chandler, Tempe. For that matter Gilbert has a water rights tied to both SRP and CAP. Tempe has rights to Verde, Salt and CAP. Even Tucson has water share rights with Phoenix.
The easiest way to tell if a Valley city has abundant water. Do they flaunt it? That's how you can tell.
Fringes that pull a combination of CAP and Groundwater exclusively are a different story.
The elephant in the room is Navajo Nation, but that's a topic for another time. I wouldn't want to be in an area reliant on CAP sourcing exclusively personally.
It's SIGNIFICANTLY more complicated than that. Tempe has ample water supplies, any of the inner rings do: Phoenix, Glendale, Mesa, Scottsdale, Chandler, Tempe. For that matter Gilbert has a water rights tied to both SRP and CAP. Tempe has rights to Verde, Salt and CAP. Even Tucson has water share rights with Phoenix.
The easiest way to tell if a Valley city has abundant water. Do they flaunt it? That's how you can tell.
Fringes that pull a combination of CAP and Groundwater exclusively are a different story.
The elephant in the room is Navajo Nation, but that's a topic for another time. I wouldn't want to be in an area reliant on CAP sourcing exclusively personally.
I didn't realize Chandler and Tempe counted as the inner rings. I read from the Arizona Department of Water Resources that Glendale, Mesa, Scottsdale, and Phoenix were the only ones. Maybe I should check again.
Tucson is considered a major city, so of course it gets water rights. Our water policy directly emphasizes that municipal gets prioritized over agricultural and industrial sectors... But if it ever came down to limiting municipal use the outer rings would get shut down first. For Tucson I think Marana and Oro Valley are those outer rings... South Tucson, technically it's own city, counts as an inner ring even though it's so small.
I do agree that only using CAP would be a disaster. Being in Phoenix we have those three options plus recycled wastewater and it's great. I don't think Tucson uses any of the SRP water as far as I'm aware of, so we are groundwater and CAP. Tucson has a TON of wells. Phoenix is in a better location as far as water goes.
I didn't realize Chandler and Tempe counted as the inner rings. I read from the Arizona Department of Water Resources that Glendale, Mesa, Scottsdale, and Phoenix were the only ones. Maybe I should check again.
Tucson is considered a major city, so of course it gets water rights. Our water policy directly emphasizes that municipal gets prioritized over agricultural and industrial sectors... But if it ever came down to limiting municipal use the outer rings would get shut down first. For Tucson I think Marana and Oro Valley are those outer rings... South Tucson, technically it's own city, counts as an inner ring even though it's so small.
I do agree that only using CAP would be a disaster. Being in Phoenix we have those three options plus recycled wastewater and it's great. I don't think Tucson uses any of the SRP water as far as I'm aware of, so we are groundwater and CAP. Tucson has a TON of wells. Phoenix is in a better location as far as water goes.
You're right on a very surface level but there's more to it than that. The basic rule of water policy in AZ is first in line first in right. The older cities with older claims have more rights. But then there's a messy web that grows out of that.
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