Downtown Phoenix living? (Tucson, Mesa, Scottsdale: real estate, costs, club)

[ExcellentExpat]

I love City-Data but at the same time these forums are almost worthless.The opinions of people who live in a city or metro are almost always split down the middle between those who love it and those who hate it. Unfortunately for those of us interested in relocation I guess all we can do is visit each and every city we're considering and judge for ourselves.

[SageCats]

There's nothing wrong with Vegas, btw... I mean, there are families that live there just fine and Clark County is pretty big. It doesn't mean that your teenager will get into trouble!

[SageCats]

Originally Posted by ExcellentExpat

I love City-Data but at the same time these forums are almost worthless.The opinions of people who live in a city or metro are almost always split down the middle between those who love it and those who hate it. Unfortunately for those of us interested in relocation I guess all we can do is visit each and every city we're considering and judge for ourselves.

This is very true. I heard a lot of trash talk about Arizona before I visited. But, I am glad I did because I decided that this is where I wanted to be. I no longer live there but I would recommend AZ for anyone who is looking for a warmer climate. There are certain places where schools are good but those places tend to be pricier.
If you are interested in relocation, I say visit first and if you like it then do it! Someone once told me life is too short to live in a place you don't like.... very wise words indeed!

[SageCats]

One time, I posed the question "What is there to do in places like NYC or SF that you can't do in Phoenix?" No one has been able to give me a straight answer. NYC has broadway, so does Phoenix. All three places have many different opera companies, theaters, ballet, restaurants, bars.... I can do just about anything in Phoenix that I can do in NYC or San Fran except visit landmarks like the statue of liberty or the golden gate bridge. Well, there's Sedona and the Grand Canyon in AZ.
Some people like vibrant cities like NYC (for Manhattan) and others like quieter, more spaced out areas like Phoenix. They each have their own charm... but I would still like for someone to tell me what you can do in NYC and San Fran that you can't do in Phoenix aside from visit landmarks that are unique to each city.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by SkySofiaLila

One time, I posed the question "What is there to do in places like NYC or SF that you can't do in Phoenix?" No one has been able to give me a straight answer. NYC has broadway, so does Phoenix. All three places have many different opera companies, theaters, ballet, restaurants, bars.... I can do just about anything in Phoenix that I can do in NYC or San Fran except visit landmarks like the statue of liberty or the golden gate bridge. Well, there's Sedona and the Grand Canyon in AZ.
Some people like vibrant cities like NYC (for Manhattan) and others like quieter, more spaced out areas like Phoenix. They each have their own charm... but I would still like for someone to tell me what you can do in NYC and San Fran that you can't do in Phoenix aside from visit landmarks that are unique to each city.

Spend an entire trip not needing to use a car. Experience urban life. Walk to bars and restaurants reducing the DUI and expensive transit issues.

Until Phoenix can work it's issues out its not even on the radar of SF and NY. It's comparable to Houston which also has a work first, heavily polluted urban core.

[SageCats]

I need a car to get around SF. I can't get around by foot alone. Residential areas of SF dont have an easy way to access more walkable areas without a car.
The Bay Area doesn't have good public transportation either.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by ExcellentExpat

I love City-Data but at the same time these forums are almost worthless.The opinions of people who live in a city or metro are almost always split down the middle between those who love it and those who hate it. Unfortunately for those of us interested in relocation I guess all we can do is visit each and every city we're considering and judge for ourselves.

Everyone, always, has to judge for him or herself. All the questions and answers here about any city can't establish how a particular person will like actually living somewhere themselves. I always tell people to start with taking the overly positive and overly negative opinions with a grain of salt, and then come visit and see first hand. Some move without visiting and it works, some visit and move and decide, down the road, that the place they moved is not for them. It's all over the spectrum. But the range of information one can get here is better than no information at all.

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by SkySofiaLila

One time, I posed the question "What is there to do in places like NYC or SF that you can't do in Phoenix?" No one has been able to give me a straight answer. NYC has broadway, so does Phoenix. All three places have many different opera companies, theaters, ballet, restaurants, bars.... I can do just about anything in Phoenix that I can do in NYC or San Fran except visit landmarks like the statue of liberty or the golden gate bridge. Well, there's Sedona and the Grand Canyon in AZ.
Some people like vibrant cities like NYC (for Manhattan) and others like quieter, more spaced out areas like Phoenix. They each have their own charm... but I would still like for someone to tell me what you can do in NYC and San Fran that you can't do in Phoenix aside from visit landmarks that are unique to each city.

Is this a serious question? Last time I was in New York:

-I was able to get by fine without a car, and public transportation is 24/7 there. My company here offers a cash incentive to not use a car, but I'm ineligible because I live too far to walk/bike without getting sweaty and public transit shuts down before I get off.

-For the first time I was able to try Tibetan cuisine and a Colombian bakery, neither of which exists in Phoenix.

-This old, bearded man in Manhattan was wearing neon pink and green fabric and a zebra pattern dress while carrying a parasol and donning a top hat. Not only did no one bother him, he more or less just faded into the background. Expressing yourself like that in Phoenix would likely get jeers.

-Hailing a cab when needed was fast and easy, whereas in Phoenix you most likely will need to contact one to pick you up.

-Many amenities are significantly closer and require less travel time.

I'm way too short on time to provide more, but there are a lot of things those cities offer Phoenix doesn't, and that was just New York. I don't know what you do if/when you go there, but I've noticed generally a much greater variety and quality.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

I'm way too short on time to provide more, but there are a lot of things those cities offer Phoenix doesn't, and that was just New York. I don't know what you do if/when you go there, but I've noticed generally a much greater variety and quality.

On the flip side,

- I asked for the closest large mountain I could hike near Manhattan and the answer to that question wasn't nearly as appealing as what I can do in/around Phoenix.

- Looking for regional types of traditional Mexican food was problematic in NYC

- As an avid off-road cyclist I found my options in and around NYC to be less than thrilling

- My outdoor dining options for most of the year were pretty limited

- The ability to obtain tickets to many of NY's famed entertainment options on a normal person's budget was nearly impossible, although since it was a vacation we did splurge a bit.

- While casually researching rents, mainly for the entertainment factor, I questioned how middle class exists in the area. Then quickly realized it's necessary for most people to live very, very far away from the hustle and bustle that makes NYC appealing to so many.

Again, like you said, it depends on what a person wants to do if/when they travel. But some of us find Phoenix to be a much more ideal place to live and would not choose to live in a place NYC, even if finances allowed for it.

Now, SF on the other hand, has some geographic and weather advantages over NYC that make it pretty appealing to us outdoor lovers. Costs on other hand....

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by locolife

On the flip side,

- I asked for the closest large mountain I could hike near Manhattan and the answer to that question wasn't nearly as appealing as what I can do in/around Phoenix.

- Looking for regional types of traditional Mexican food was problematic in NYC

- As an avid off-road cyclist I found my options in and around NYC to be less than thrilling

- My outdoor dining options for most of the year were pretty limited

- The ability to obtain tickets to many of NY's famed entertainment options on a normal person's budget was nearly impossible, although since it was a vacation we did splurge a bit.

- While casually researching rents, mainly for the entertainment factor, I questioned how middle class exists in the area. Then quickly realized it's necessary for most people to live very, very far away from the hustle and bustle that makes NYC appealing to so many.

Again, like you said, it depends on what a person wants to do if/when they travel. But some of us find Phoenix to be a much more ideal place to live and would not choose to live in a place NYC, even if finances allowed for it.

Now, SF on the other hand, has some geographic and weather advantages over NYC that make it pretty appealing to us outdoor lovers. Costs on other hand....

A lot of the outdoor things you listed don't matter to me at all, so they don't make Phoenix any more or less attractive in my eyes because I hardly ever go hiking and loathe bike riding for recreation. The amenities make New York much more attractive to me than Phoenix, as does the high density living, because I did that when living in Asia and just prefer living that way. On top of that, jobs in my field pay much, much higher in New York (even in relation to the cost of living) and I could be better off financially living there than here. That has in part to do with the greater number of like jobs there and the competing pay. I'm heavily considering that as a future home for when I move next.