Costco and Walmart going by PV Mall (Phoenix, Scottsdale: crime, Home Depot)

[Solere]

PV Mall adding Costco; nearby, a new Wal-Mart opens (broken link)

Paradise Valley Mall will be getting a new Costco store and a Walmart just opened up across the street. Is this a sign of the gradual decline of what's an otherwise middle to upper middle class area? If this mall, which has been the pride of the area for many years, can't get a department store to open and operate successfully and has to rely on a big box store, then it's a sign of what's in store for the neighborhood. Will almost the entire city of Phoenix become a ghetto someday? Why have so many neighborhoods in the city of Phoenix gone downhill in otherwise nice areas? Why can't Paradise Valley Mall resurrect itself and turn into a nice mall?

[TurcoLoco]

I do not understand the connection between Costco, Wal-Mart and an area turning into ghetto!
The area I lived in Orange County had both all over and the areas around them were far from ghetto, so I don't get the logic of linking one to the other.

[Solere]

The logic is that Phoenix Spectrum Mall/Christown Mall, which use to be halfway decent 30 yrs ago is now a "ghetto" mall with a Costco and Walmart. Paradise Valley Mall used to have Macy's and was thriving in the 80's and 90's. Town of Paradise Valley people used to shop there due to its close proximity. The fact that the mall can't sustain itself and needs a Costco and Walmart to hang on to life says something about the area. I guess you can say the same about Thomas Mall, Park Central Mall and Tower Plaza to an extent.

[exit2lef]

I don't think this development has anything to do with a downturn in the northeast Phoenix area. Instead, it has to do with trends in the retail industry, particurlarly in the mid-priced portion of the industry, a niche that PV Mall has always occupied. There's been a lot of consolidation in this market segment. Robinsons-May was merged into Macy's. As a result, Macy's took the old Robinsons-May space and left its old area behind. Due to other mergers, there are no other mid-level department stores that could occupy the old Macy's space. At the same time, consumers, even at the upper middle class level, have warmed to big box discounters. These days, you'll see plenty of luxury cars in the parking lots of Costco and Wal-Mart. Given these developments, PV Mall is just following broader trends in the retail industry. I see no reason for the negative conclusions in the original post.

As for upscale retail in the Phoenix Metro Area, that's alive and well. Scottsdale Fashion Square is about to fill its old Robinsons-May space with Barneys, and Bloomingdale's is on its way to the new CityNorth development in northeast Phoenix. At the upper end, things are going just fine.

[sablebaby]

Sounds great to me. I used to live over there (actually for over 20 years) and we always had to drive 12 miles to the Costco and Super Walmart in Scottsdale. There really needs to be redevelopment in the NE area as it's been going downhill for the past few years.

[sablebaby]

Originally Posted by Happs

PV Mall adding Costco; nearby, a new Wal-Mart opens (broken link)

Paradise Valley Mall will be getting a new Costco store and a Walmart just opened up across the street. Is this a sign of the gradual decline of what's an otherwise middle to upper middle class area? If this mall, which has been the pride of the area for many years, can't get a department store to open and operate successfully and has to rely on a big box store, then it's a sign of what's in store for the neighborhood. Will almost the entire city of Phoenix become a ghetto someday? Why have so many neighborhoods in the city of Phoenix gone downhill in otherwise nice areas? Why can't Paradise Valley Mall resurrect itself and turn into a nice mall?

Much of the lower income have been moving more and more east. The whole NE Phx area has been going downhill. I know this area like the back of my hand. Something needs to improve. The PV Mall has not been the pride of the area for MANY years. There's much more crime in the area than in the past. Luckily, there are still some great areas, but many need major improvements.

[exit2lef]

To elaborate on this a bit more, PV Mall, as presently configured, simply has too many spaces allocated to traditional department stores. If I'm counting correctly, it has five spaces for anchors. Two are allocated to lower-priced department stores: JC Penney and Sears. Two are allocated to mid-priced department stores: Macy's and Dillard's

What store could fill the fifth space? Robinsons-May no longer exists, and comparable brands like Foley's, Marshall-Field, etc. have all been integrated into the Macy's empire. Due to all of the consolidation in the industry, there is simply no one left to fill that space. Tearing down the old Macy's space to make way for a popular discounter like Costco is the only sensible thing to do.

Sure, we could ask why PV Mall can't attract an upscale retailer like Lord & Taylor, which currently has no Phoenix presence, but PV Mall has never operated in that tier. It has always been a middle class mall; the luxury retailers have always been at Biltmore or Scottsdale Fashion Square.

As for Chris-Town, it's important to consider what makes a mall "ghetto." I've been over to the new Super Target at Chris-Town, and the area is more bustling than it was 10 or 15 years ago. The demographics of the immediate neighborhood have definitely changed, but the shopping center continues to be prosperous. To me, an empty mall with boarded up storefronts says "ghetto" much more than the income levels or ethnicity of its customers.

[nolagirl]

Have you been to this Wal-Mart? It's the 2nd nicest one I have ever been to, only behind Scottsdale, and I normally hate Wal Mart.

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by nolagirl

Have you been to this Wal-Mart? It's the 2nd nicest one I have ever been to, only behind Scottsdale, and I normally hate Wal Mart.

I don't care how nice it is, but if I were living in Paradise Valley, I'd be annoyed, too. Don't understand what makes anybody think that big-box stores would revive malls. We have a dead mall here, too (El Con). For good number of years that mall can't attract one anchor store after losing two. This one is owned by a family and this fact might have something to do with its decline. So what happened! Home Depot and Target were built adjacent to it. Of course, the neighborhoods around opposed it but didn't win. These stores are not even connected to the mall. How are they gonna help for its revitalization?! Oh, yeah, movie theaters were built, too. Again, disconnected from the mall. What's inside? One DEAD and depressing mall!!!

[nolagirl]

It's really not even that close to PV, and the wal-mart is far nicer than any of the other groceries we have around here, with the exception of whole foods. It's nicer than Fry's & Albertsons.