A modified Pink Line serving Scottsdale, Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert, and East Mesa (Phoenix: light rail, commuter)

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

Why would it have to cut through the heart of Old Town? If a line went along Rural/Scottsdale, just north of Thomas there is a split to Drinkwater (east) and Goldwater (west) and both merge back into Scottsdale Road. A Drinkwater alignment is much more logical because not only does it provide access to the retail, restaurants and nightlife, but also there are many offices around there, which would still make light rail a viable commuting option for those workers as well as allowing tourists to use the system to visit the area. This bypasses whatever look Scottsdale is trying to preserve (because parking garages and office buildings were staples to frontier towns in the late 19th century, after all) while still serving the area.

I think Camelback needs some relief too, and I think it's plausible to have a Rural/Scottsdale/Drinkwater alignment that shifts to Camelback and reconnects with the starter line at 7th Avenue. This route (assuming no further expansion in Phoenix) would connect 19th and 7th Avenues (and I've intentionally left out Central because of that stop's location and the engineering hassle it would need, save for expanding the station itself) and all of Camelback up to Scottsdale Road, then south along Scottsdale-Drinkwater-Scottsdale-Rural to at least University Drive, which like Central would require a station expansion, and likely beyond, to at least Broadway.

That would be possible, but I'm basing on the fact that Scottsdale is opposed to light rail, at least as of now. This could change in the future if it's proven that additional light rail lines get the necessary patrons, or exceed expectations as the original route has done. Rail is very costly, and there has to be a demand for it in order to be successful. This is why I believe Scottsdale's opposition is more economic than anything else.

The priority should be to extend light rail from Central & Washington to the Capitol, and then possibly to the west Valley. I understand that the I10 median (which is currently a vacant eyesore) is slated for light rail sometime in the next decade or so. This stretch would be better used for extra traffic lanes, which would be more productive, efficient, and less costly ... however, I guess there is a demand for light rail to expand to the west Valley.

I hope that Tempe and Chandler can somehow work together on changing the name of Rural Road to something better. Rural Road is anything but rural ... however, that's another topic!

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

That would be possible, but I'm basing on the fact that Scottsdale is opposed to light rail, at least as of now. This could change in the future if it's proven that additional light rail lines get the necessary patrons, or exceed expectations as the original route has done. Rail is very costly, and there has to be a demand for it in order to be successful. This is why I believe Scottsdale's opposition is more economic than anything else.

The priority should be to extend light rail from Central & Washington to the Capitol, and then possibly to the west Valley. I understand that the I10 median (which is currently a vacant eyesore) is slated for light rail sometime in the next decade or so. This stretch would be better used for extra traffic lanes, which would be more productive, efficient, and less costly ... however, I guess there is a demand for light rail to expand to the west Valley.

I hope that Tempe and Chandler can somehow work together on changing the name of Rural Road to something better. Rural Road is anything but rural ... however, that's another topic!

The 72 is one of the busiest routes operated by Valley Metro's First Transit-RPTA East Valley operations (probably the busiest north-south route, with the 61-Southern probably being the busiest east-west route under the First Transit-RPTA East Valley umbrella). My idea of combining my Pink and Brown Line ideas into a single Pink Line would relieve traffic on the 72 plus would provide a needed light rail link for Chandler and Gilbert, two cities that are underserved by mass transit by linking them to popular destinations in Tempe and Scottsdale to maximize ridership, plus Downtown Chandler and three other major malls (Chandler Fashion Center, SanTan Village, and Superstition Springs Center). The line wouldn't solely be intended for mall-to-mall traffic; there are plenty of other popular destinations along the line as well.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

The 72 is one of the busiest routes operated by Valley Metro's First Transit-RPTA East Valley operations (probably the busiest north-south route, with the 61-Southern probably being the busiest east-west route under the First Transit-RPTA East Valley umbrella). My idea of combining my Pink and Brown Line ideas into a single Pink Line would relieve traffic on the 72 plus would provide a needed light rail link for Chandler and Gilbert, two cities that are underserved by mass transit by linking them to popular destinations in Tempe and Scottsdale to maximize ridership, plus Downtown Chandler and three other major malls (Chandler Fashion Center, SanTan Village, and Superstition Springs Center). The line wouldn't solely be intended for mall-to-mall traffic; there are plenty of other popular destinations along the line as well.

If a light rail line would go straight up Scottsdale Road (as I believe you're suggesting), that would be a major inconvenience to the general traffic flow in Old Town because it's currently a narrow street with only two lanes in each direction in that area. Scottsdale Road becomes a wider thoroughfare south of the Drinkwater extension, and north of Camelback if I'm not mistaken, but the downtown part of Scottsdale Road would be exclusively light rail and little room for vehicle traffic.

Anyway, don't expect Scottsdale to get on board with light rail anytime soon. They've already decided that they don't want it, so the best thing to do for now is concentrate on extending it within the central areas of Phoenix and possibly the west side where there is a greater demand.

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

That would be possible, but I'm basing on the fact that Scottsdale is opposed to light rail, at least as of now. This could change in the future if it's proven that additional light rail lines get the necessary patrons, or exceed expectations as the original route has done. Rail is very costly, and there has to be a demand for it in order to be successful. This is why I believe Scottsdale's opposition is more economic than anything else.

The priority should be to extend light rail from Central & Washington to the Capitol, and then possibly to the west Valley. I understand that the I10 median (which is currently a vacant eyesore) is slated for light rail sometime in the next decade or so. This stretch would be better used for extra traffic lanes, which would be more productive, efficient, and less costly ... however, I guess there is a demand for light rail to expand to the west Valley.

I hope that Tempe and Chandler can somehow work together on changing the name of Rural Road to something better. Rural Road is anything but rural ... however, that's another topic!

I believe both a government complex/West Valley extension and Rural/Scottsdale are both past due. If anything, I think local governments need to be stricter on time and get these built faster. I've seen it done in Asia, and this was for subway lines, which are much costlier and more time consuming to build. Still, they could get things done and fast. I'm surprised the Phoenix city government doesn't get more aggressive with commuter rail, because it would be less costly using existing rail and could instantly connect other cities. I'm sure multiple municipalities would be willing to work toward that, and it could potentially revitalize Union Station (which, on another note, could really use more lobbying on the city's part to resume Amtrak service).

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

If a light rail line would go straight up Scottsdale Road (as I believe you're suggesting), that would be a major inconvenience to the general traffic flow in Old Town because it's currently a narrow street with only two lanes in each direction in that area. Scottsdale Road becomes a wider thoroughfare south of the Drinkwater extension, and north of Camelback if I'm not mistaken, but the downtown part of Scottsdale Road would be exclusively light rail and little room for vehicle traffic.

Anyway, don't expect Scottsdale to get on board with light rail anytime soon. They've already decided that they don't want it, so the best thing to do for now is concentrate on extending it within the central areas of Phoenix and possibly the west side where there is a greater demand.

Light rail in Scottsdale would be a cool feature but the city council has already determined Scottsdale is too good for it.

The demand is higher in the west valley, I would like to see more lines west of 19th Avenue expanding to the western suburbs before the second coming of Christ.

[Colt AZ]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

Light rail in Scottsdale would be a cool feature but the city council has already determined Scottsdale is too good for it.

The demand is higher in the west valley, I would like to see more lines west of 19th Avenue expanding to the western suburbs before the second coming of Christ.

Should He tarry.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

Light rail in Scottsdale would be a cool feature but the city council has already determined Scottsdale is too good for it.

The demand is higher in the west valley, I would like to see more lines west of 19th Avenue expanding to the western suburbs before the second coming of Christ.

I would think lines going to Downtown Glendale, Westgate, and to Arrowhead Towne Center would generate quite a bit of ridership. However, at the same time, a line going to Scottsdale Fashion Square and Old Town Scottsdale would also generate a lot of ridership despite the opposition of the city council. There is no denying that the 72 is a very busy bus route. The whole reason why the city doesn't want light rail is because they don't want the undesirables, not because of a lack of demand.

[Colt AZ]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

The whole reason why the city doesn't want light rail is because they don't want the undesirables, not because of a lack of demand.

Oh, the riff-raff!

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

The whole reason why the city doesn't want light rail is because they don't want the undesirables, not because of a lack of demand.

Or maybe they don't want to spend $500 million of their tax dollars on a light rail expansion. Keep on perpetuating the notion Scottsdale doesn't want light rail because it wants to keep the undesirables out if it makes you feel better.

The supposed "undesirables" already have a plethora of ways to make to Scottsdale right now, if they so choose. It's like if you say something long enough and over and over, people start to believe it, even if it isn't true.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

I would think lines going to Downtown Glendale, Westgate, and to Arrowhead Towne Center would generate quite a bit of ridership. However, at the same time, a line going to Scottsdale Fashion Square and Old Town Scottsdale would also generate a lot of ridership despite the opposition of the city council. There is no denying that the 72 is a very busy bus route. The whole reason why the city doesn't want light rail is because they don't want the undesirables, not because of a lack of demand.

Your dream of light rail expansion is becoming a slow reality, it's progressing eastward through Mesa. Construction starts on Mesa light-rail extension to Gilbert Road

I agree with you about Scottsdale's opposition, light rail would be nothing but advantageous but don't expect it to happen there unless the trains are designed like Porches or Maseratis.