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I'm not saying they cant grow grass. Show me where I said that. I pointed out how the poster says he doesn't "waste water", yet has a lush lawn. Its just an unnecessary thing to do in PHX, especially in the middle of an epic drought. I think if everyone saw how much water they wasted on their stupid lawns, they would reconsider. SRP makes a nice water usage pyramid using milk jugs at the zoo during the Zoo Lights festival. But they just show how much one person uses a day on showering, etc. That pales in comparison to how much water gets used on lawns and non-native flora. 5-7K gallons a month just to have grass in the Sonoran Desert??? Some people use a lot more. Ridiculous.
You seem to worry a lot about the drought, which you have good reason to ... however, if I remember right, you were one of the biggest complainers about the cloudy, rainy conditions this last winter. I'm not understanding your attitude. On one hand you think it's an unnecessary waste to have lush green lawns that have a cooling effect because we're in an "epic drought" (but yet you say nothing about swimming pools which consume just as much water). On the other hand, you griped incessantly when we had a string of rainy days in December & January (which were long overdue). Something tells me you enjoy complaining about anything.
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Originally Posted by locolife
This is one reason why I can't help but laugh when people worry about the drought in the West, it'll be pretty easy to cutback on wasted water use when were finally forced to do so. To date I don't think Phoenix has ever seen a single forced restriction on water use, meanwhile places like Denver, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Los Angeles have had strict enforcement for years.
I can't help but laugh when some people get all worried about the so called drought, and balk against greenery which is much easier on the eyes than hot gravel, but whine and bellyache whenever it's too rainy, too cloudy, too cold, or too drizzly for their tastes. OK, so we're in a drought. More people should be welcoming winters like this last one (which wasn't nearly as wet as some winters in the past) instead of always worshiping the damn sun or wanting it warm & dry every day of the year. Northern AZ had the snowiest winter in about 12 years, and it actually put a dent in the drought. That should be something to be bragging about, instead of all this hypocritical Chicken Little mentality!
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Originally Posted by BIG CATS
I think Phoenicians need to start water shaming each other like they do in California.
I think you should move to Commiefornia if you like their "shaming", meddling tactics so much.
You seem to worry a lot about the drought, which you have good reason to ... however, if I remember right, you were one of the biggest complainers about the cloudy, rainy conditions this last winter. I'm not understanding your attitude. On one hand you think it's an unnecessary waste to have lush green lawns that have a cooling effect because we're in an "epic drought" (but yet you say nothing about swimming pools which consume just as much water). On the other hand, you griped incessantly when we had a string of rainy days in December & January (which were long overdue). Something tells me you enjoy complaining about anything.
Here's where you're right: yes, I complained about the wet, cold winter we had. It sucked. People move to the Valley for the sunshine and outdoor activities. I don't bike nor hike when its crappy out, which usually seemed to be on the weekends when, ironically, we are off of work.
Here's where you're wrong: our drought/water conditions aren't dependent on Valley conditions, but rather snowpack/rain up north that feeds the Colorado River. Sure the rain in the Valley helps a bit, but its not what we need. So basically what I wish for are massively snowy winters up in the high country, and dry, sunny winters down here. Get it now?
And yes, wasting that water from the Colorado River just to make pretty green grass grow in our parched desert is ridiculous. That's how I see it. If you don't agree with it, I don't give a crap. Just remember that I'm not the one wasting 60K (!!!!) gallons or more a year just to have unnatural grass in my yard. I'm not contributing to the depletion of the water supplies we have nearly as much as you are.
One more thing, when it rains here, people still keep their stupid sprinklers on regardless. Nothing like seeing sprinklers spouting off when its pouring rain outside.
Here's where you're right: yes, I complained about the wet, cold winter we had. It sucked. People move to the Valley for the sunshine and outdoor activities. I don't bike nor hike when its crappy out, which usually seemed to be on the weekends when, ironically, we are off of work.
And that was your opinion, which I thought sucked. While you were griping and sulking, I was enjoying the cooler, wetter weather. The hills around Phoenix were turning green & beautiful. Everything was getting a good watering, including my plush green rye grass lawn. I hardly had to water at all during December, January, and much of February, which reduced water consumption (not to mention my water bills). By the way, not everybody moves here for the sunshine and outdoor activities. I was born here, and continue to reside here for much more important reasons.
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Originally Posted by BIG CATS
Here's where you're wrong: our drought/water conditions aren't dependent on Valley conditions, but rather snowpack/rain up north that feeds the Colorado River. Sure the rain in the Valley helps a bit, but its not what we need. So basically what I wish for are massively snowy winters up in the high country, and dry, sunny winters down here. Get it now?
What you wish for is hardly ever reality. Our winter weather depends heavily on what happens to the west and north of us. When southern CA is wet, we are usually wet as well. When the AZ high country receives the massive snowfalls, we usually get more rain down here. That's simply how it works most of the time. You should be thankful that northern AZ received some of the best snowfall in 12 years, and the runoff is helping the water supply, which means an ease to the drought conditions.
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Originally Posted by BIG CATS
One more thing, when it rains here, people still keep their stupid sprinklers on regardless. Nothing like seeing sprinklers spouting off when its pouring rain outside.
I agree here, but I can assure you that I'm not one of those morons. The problem is those timers, which allow people to be lazy and they don't adjust them properly for weather conditions. I prefer to water manually so I can time the water duration myself, and not water at all when it's rainy or too windy.
And that was your opinion, which I thought sucked. While you were griping and sulking, I was enjoying the cooler, wetter weather. The hills around Phoenix were turning green & beautiful. Everything was getting a good watering, including my plush green rye grass lawn. I hardly had to water at all during December, January, and much of February, which reduced water consumption (not to mention my water bills). By the way, not everybody moves here for the sunshine and outdoor activities. I was born here, and continue to reside here for much more important reasons.
Well, if you were and avid outdoorsman like myself, and found many weekends ruined due to rainy conditions, I'm sure you would "sulk", too. I bust my arse at work and look forward to my hiking, biking, and car shows on the weekends. And when its crappy out, I don't partake. I don't know anyone who likes to bike in slippery conditions, sopping wet. Nor do I know anyone who likes to get out and hike when its rainy, cold, and windy. Its miserable. So while YOU might be enjoying it, most people aren't. There's a reason people move to AZ, and that's to escape said conditions that many of us lived in for the majority of our lives. Go live in Seattle if you enjoy those conditions so much. I guarantee youll be begging to come back in a short while. Hence the reason there are sooooo many ex-Seattleites roaming around Phoenix.
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Originally Posted by Valley Native
What you wish for is hardly ever reality. Our winter weather depends heavily on what happens to the west and north of us. When southern CA is wet, we are usually wet as well. When the AZ high country receives the massive snowfalls, we usually get more rain down here. That's simply how it works most of the time. You should be thankful that northern AZ received some of the best snowfall in 12 years, and the runoff is helping the water supply, which means an ease to the drought conditions.
I'm very thankful the high country got good snowpack this year. I thought I made that clear?
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Originally Posted by Valley Native
I agree here, but I can assure you that I'm not one of those morons. The problem is those timers, which allow people to be lazy and they don't adjust them properly for weather conditions. I prefer to water manually so I can time the water duration myself, and not water at all when it's rainy or too windy.
If you moved here to the parched Sonoran Desert and feel the need to have a lush lawn just to play croquet or softball on, please slap yourself. Water is our most precious commodity in the desert, and to move here and suck down thousands upon thousands of gallons a month just so you can walk barefoot in the yard is ridiculous. I cant wait 'til water restrictions are FINALLY enforced here all these lush green lawns I see shrivel up and die. If you all want super green and lush lawns, move to where the water is plentiful, because you clearly picked the wrong place to live and waste water so extravagantly.
I think Phoenicians need to start water shaming each other like they do in California.
The fact that Phoenix happens to be in the Sonoran Desert shouldn't mean the entire MSA should be barren and natural. I didn't move here for the desert climate and I shouldn't have to move someplace else just because I like grass and shadetrees.
You'll probably have to wait a mighty long time for water restrictions, there are no plans for them because the Phoenix area has multiple water sources and none are endangered.
I'm sorry you think being comfortable and having green recreational areas is a waste. How miserable it would be to not have any grass or shady areas to play on.
Do you like being miserable? Please slap yourself.
The fact that Phoenix happens to be in the Sonoran Desert shouldn't mean the entire MSA should be barren and natural. I didn't move here for the desert climate and I shouldn't have to move someplace else just because I like grass and shadetrees.
Try to think of this in reverse. Let's say a Phoenix native moved to Columbus, Ohio and they immediately ripped out the grass and shade trees that were native and did desert landscaping with a rock lawn and cacti (that are not native). It would be completely ridiculous no matter how many times they repeated "I am from the desert! Just because this is Ohio doesn't mean it has to be lush and green! I didn't move here for the non-desert climate. I shouldn't have to move someplace else because I don't like grass and shade trees."
Water waste aside, why try to force a different climate's plants to thrive someplace they don't belong? You may not have moved here for the desert climate, but this is the desert, like it or not.
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I think it is funny how everyone keeps saying "this is the desert" all the time when even the Hohokam settled the area and <<gasp>> planted crops. They survived for a couple thousand years at the confluence of the Salt and Gila rivers...agriculture has long been a part of the Valley of the Sun and I am guessing NONE of those crops were "native" to the area.
Try to think of this in reverse. Let's say a Phoenix native moved to Columbus, Ohio and they immediately ripped out the grass and shade trees that were native and did desert landscaping with a rock lawn and cacti (that are not native). It would be completely ridiculous no matter how many times they repeated "I am from the desert! Just because this is Ohio doesn't mean it has to be lush and green! I didn't move here for the non-desert climate. I shouldn't have to move someplace else because I don't like grass and shade trees."
Water waste aside, why try to force a different climate's plants to thrive someplace they don't belong? You may not have moved here for the desert climate, but this is the desert, like it or not.
You mean xeriscaping? Ohio has xeriscaping you know.
Additionally, you are aware that naturally Phoenix is riparian due to natural flooding cycles from the Salt/Gila Rivers? That actual natural habitat would be green brush, Oak and Ash?
Sometime you may drive toward Wickenburg. There is a stream that runs just outside of Town. You will notice the types of plants that are growing in and around that stream. Imagine that on a much grander scale. That is the SRV in its natural form. That was the primary reason for human civilization on a grand scale in this area and why the canals were built in the first place. It was a literal oasis. Which is what makes so many transplants wrong. They come here and think that all of Phoenix should be cacti and gravel when naturally a large portion of the valley is lush and green but-for the dams that had to be built to keep all of you Midwesterners from dehydrating while hiking in July.
It's still not the norm there for residential yards, most have a grass lawn. It's quite common everywhere for businesses, yes.
I've driven toward Wickenburg, MANY times. It may be greenish there, but it's not the same. This is a different climate, period.
It's not the climate its the interaction and infusion of water into the soil.
It's exactly the same, it's a stream running through the Sonoran Desert.
And, specifically, how is a different climate period one that is only 10 or so degrees cooler at some points?
A second example would be Rio Rico; a third would be the San Pedro. A fourth would be the area North of Tucson w/n the Rillito Wash.
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