What are some ways Phoenix could develop to stand out from the crowd? (Miami: transplants, apartment)

[Java Jolt]

Sometimes Phoenix stands out from the crowd but in a not so good way.

Certain controversies that have taken place over the years on a state level have affected Phoenix very negatively, I think this has improved recently.

Phoenix is a progressive city that can stand out in a positive way as long as certain knuckleheads in the state government avoid doing things that make Arizona look backward and cause Phoenix to lose out on some good tax revenue.

[MDCB]

Agree with the other posters.

I think Phoenix has done a great job expressing culture with Native American roots, high dazzling rich parts of town, etc but it hasn't established itself uniquely and I agree with the OP about this.

I suggested this in the Tucson forum once but I think that if Phoenix was completely solar powered and ushered in new technologies like battery power storage, it would establish a culture. It would empower the city in setting precedents and would be a role model even to states like progressive California.
With this would come brain power from those that would take part in the energy revolution.

Agreed that there isn't a medical school in Phoenix but there are residency programs

Come on Phoenix! Be like Vegas and use the free sunshine in the state to establish yourself in the new energy era!

[BKDH]

It lacks a world class university that could act as driver of innovation and entrepreneurship in the area.

ASU and UofA are great at producing smart and hard working graduates which any company would love to hire, but they are nowhere close to the centers of innovation producing high impact research and startups like UTAustin, UWash or Stanford.

IMO, most of the cities that you mentioned grew on the shoulder of innovations that came out of world class research institutions in/nearby those cities.

[Rico Valencia]

I think Phoenix should build a 700-800 ft tall skyscraper shaped like a saguaro cactus to stand out from the crowd. If they built it right, it would be right up there with the Space Needle, Empire State Building and the Golden Gate Bridge as a premier symbol of the region and national importance. Unfortunately, I think the people of Phoenix lack the ambition and creativity to make this happen.

[john3232]

The Phoenix metro is already looking good to many employers and employees. I own a rental in San Francisco and the city has gotten quite ugly over the past ten years. You've got a percentage of those 30 earning a very nice income, city workers who are also have a good thing going and then there is everyone else. It's not unusual for 4 and 5 adults to live together in home rental home. The cost of housing is often way too high for one two people. In fact the cost of housing almost everywhere in the Bay Area has gone through the roof. Same with San Diego and Seattle.

However, right now the Phoenix metro is on the rise. Housing is still very affordable and no harsh winters. The reputation is changing as well. While the metro not a progressive hot spot it does have a live and let live attitude.

Now, I certainly don't expect home prices to jump almost five times in value like they did over the past 15 years in San Francisco. But I won't be surprised if they double over the next as more companies relocate here.

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

What I fail to see out of our city is to market ourselves in our unique location of the country. We build the same apartments, the same freeways, the same housing... but not really advertise ourselves in a positive light. It's as if we just want to be mediocre.

I cut out everything you mentioned before this because you stated it plainly here: marketing. That would take money (namely tax money), and I'll repeat as I have in other threads, people here aren't willing to spend that even if it means a better future. People here are convinced taxes are the devil incarnate and adamantly oppose them even if they mean a lucrative ROI. I'm sure people will defend the private sector... but I really don't see them stepping in to fill the void, otherwise this wouldn't be a topic on this thread.

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

When I look at the cities that are currently booming with high-paying jobs in many ways they are quite different from Phoenix. Let's name a few of these, shall we? Seattle. Austin. Bay Area. NYC. Denver. What separates these five from us?
...
I am not here to make Phoenix seem weak to these cities. I think Phoenix could EASILY compare to these cities (except NYC honestly) if we improved our city amenities. I think our outdoors speak for themselves, though we could advertise on it some more.

I don't think Phoenix can compare. It may have outdoors activities, but it doesn't have good jobs. Part of why I want to leave is because I don't think Phoenix is worth living in for what I can do professionally here, when I can do better elsewhere, even in more expensive cities. Long-term, I would do better outside of Phoenix too, because I'm at the end of the line professionally here, and it's just my personality to always want better for myself. Those other cities just planned smarter and better, whereas Phoenix (and pretty much all of Arizona) just assumes things will fall into its lap. You really have to think how stupid that method sounds. If you want to fall in love, you can't just expect someone to chance upon you if you don't put yourself out there. If you want a better job, you won't find one unless you put yourself out there. I really can't figure out why Phoenix thinks this is a reasonable growth model, and I believe many leaders have maintained confidence that will happen.

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

So now that you read through these five descriptions, I hoped you noted some similarities and differences between our metro and theirs. What stood out to you?

What stood out to me is that you listed places with uniquely different histories that developed during different periods. Austin is showing now what Phoenix probably should've been doing because that city developed more recently. New York developed more organically and had a geographic and historical advantage. Phoenix could become more, as LA eventually eclipsed San Francisco in economy, prominence and population, but unless it's more proactive and competitive, don't bet on it. I don't really care to get into it right now, but Phoenix has a long, long list of problems it needs to overcome if it wants to better itself and become more prosperous. It's entirely possible Phoenix could become any one of America's cities that have become one of the top ten largest, but have since fallen from that list (only New York and Philadelphia still remain since the first census). Like you, I'm pessimistic on this town's future, and like most of the cities on those historical census lists, I think Phoenix will find its luck is going to run out in time as growth trends will favor other cities.

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

To me one of the biggest differences is that in most of these areas (Bay, Seattle, NYC) offerED (gentrification ruined most of this) a unique culture. It is of no surprise people like to be surrounded by culture, particularly a culture they enjoy, participate in, and identify with. As far as I'm concerned, Phoenix has not ever been the home of a cultural movement. Even one of the biggest culturally unique things I can think of (dirt bike bros) of Arizona is actually more centered around southern California around the Corona area. Even then not many people identify or appreciate motocross in large amounts, and it's not unique to the Southwest like in many ways NASCAR is unique to the South.

If it helps, Phoenix is home to the Miranda rights cops are required to read to criminals nationwide. Aside from that, in terms of aesthetic culture, no, you're correct, Phoenix has never hosted a major cultural movement. New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, New Orleans, Chicago, Nashville, Miami and a handful of other cities have led the way in cultural movements that influenced the entire country (and in some cases, world). I wasn't considering NASCAR, but rather literary movements, musical influences, theatrical and cinematic productions, culinary marks, etc. In reality though, one of my gripes about Phoenix is that is has no unique culture.

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

Another big difference is urbanity. These cities have may not been urban at the beginning (NYC was though) but have developed upwards over time. In places like the Bay it was out of necessity, but in the others it is out of pure desire of the populace. Phoenix still prefers to sprawl or try to market/advertise our more dense areas. Like Tempe, Old Town or Downtown. We do have urban areas, not quite to the extent of these cities right now, but how do we think Denver and Austin started to become more dense when they still have land to sprawl out on?

Correction: New York was a small town at one time, but most early immigrants were from Europe and New York's harbor and early preference toward mercantilism/capitalism (New York preferred to stay out of the Revolution in favor of trade with England, mind you) helped to make it into what it is today. Really it just developed with the times and developed according to trends. Phoenix prefers to sprawl because this state still favors the housing industry, and like in many other areas, it's late to the game in developing its core. Unlike New York, Phoenix fumbles and won't stay ahead of the game. Sorry to say to those who think one of its virtues is low cost of living, but rents in Phoenix are increasing at unaffordable rates. My rent just shot up 40%, and it's really not worth that increase. From what I noticed in my search for temporary accommodations, Phoenix rents are increasing drastically all around. It would be nice for people who want to stay here to be able to afford that, because I frankly don't think Phoenix is worth these prices.

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

The key is that while these all are seeing similar levels of success in drawing the high-paying population, they have very different ways of achieving that goal. None of them followed the same formula in doing that.

It bears repeating: they developed during different eras. All Phoenix-area cities and Arizona as a whole have a horrible tendency to elect the worst-qualified people, and very few of them do anything to make this state more competitive. Since moving here I saw the state enter a "teaching crisis" in that they couldn't get enough qualified people to take those jobs, and just today saw the governor wants a 0.4% pay increase for teachers. How exactly is that going to attract people to educate Arizona's future? For those of you who say "we have lots of sun, "cheap" housing, and outdoor activities", I think you can shove it. Hiking and sunshine won't pay a teacher's bills. Because this is in an Arizona forum, I have to explain this further: those teachers educate youths, those youths tend to age into adults, those adults get jobs, those jobs eventually will affect you and depending on what those kids learned they'll either stay in Arizona or leave for better opportunities. I think Arizona is failing to attract and retain educated people, which is really keeping this state down.

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

So what it comes down to is, what would be a unique formula that we can use to improve Phoenix? What can we do to attract higher-paying jobs and more industries? What are your solutions to answer this?

Phoenix has, slowly I think, been developing its urban areas and transportation. But I still think we are missing something, and that is the unique element to set us out. So what do you propose?

If you meant this thread in the cultural context, Phoenix already has that covered: it's a controlled, contrived culture; it strives for nothing, aims low, and mediocrity is sufficient. I don't see any ambition or drive in Phoenix, which is in part what is so frustrating about this place to me.

The formula is simple: Arizona loves losers. Arizona needs to get over that and think of its future for a change. The current governor is just more of the same and isn't really doing anything for the state. I think people move to Arizona and want to keep it in the slice of time in which they moved, which is in no way conducive to prosperity and is going to be this state's ultimate loss when others just plan better. I think to improve Arizona, stop voting "Republican" on every single position and start listening to people who could do better. That's not to say just vote Democrat, but people here tend to vote the same over and over again. I wouldn't run for governor in Arizona because I know a liberal, gay, mixed-race atheist wouldn't have a chance in this state (in fact in Vegas I would monetarily bet against myself on losing by the widest margin in state history on that alone), but my stance would be that I'm nothing more than a civil servant there to coordinate disparate interests for the common good of Arizona and its citizens, because that would be my job and I'm a results-oriented person, so I would fast-track them to see them while I'm in office. I would be meeting with business leaders and telling them aside from tax cuts, I want to know what needs to be done to improve the situation here. I would ask educators the same, and I would be aggressively pushing to resume Amtrak service to Phoenix while also expanding the state's rail network and reaching out to the international community to show this state's open for business.

That requires a visionary with a work ethic and a sense of duty... but you elected Ducey. When his term is up, most of you will elect a carbon copy of him. And this cycle will repeat itself, and Phoenix will remain a transient wasteland that will lose out to the next best cities that will be happy to knock Phoenix out of whatever spotlight it's temporarily enjoying.

[AZLiam]

Culturally speaking, the Austin "culture" that exists today is not the same Austin culture that was unique back in the late 80's/early 90's when I lived in the area. It is now a carbon copy of the culture that was brought there from people in the Bay area and West Coast, and the sheep who subsequently followed, who discovered the coolness and uniqueness of Austin many years after the fact - this has also turned many natives off and driven them away. The only redeeming thing culturally that was brought to Austin from the Bay area was the fun rave scene in the early 90's.

[Renegade007]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

People don't seem to be attracted just to general Americana culture like the Midwest, if they did it would be booming. There are cold places that are booming so I don't want to hear that it's because it's cold in the Midwest. Colorado is having a stoner/outdoor junkie MOVEMENT, the Bay Area had a hippie MOVEMENT, Seattle had the grunge MOVEMENT, Portland is having a hipster MOVEMENT. So why can't Phoenix?

Sometimes I wonder if the only movement Phoenix will ever have is a bowel movement. But then, there is Roosevelt Row, which is about as "artsy" as Phoenix has been lately. There are a few decent bands around, like, um... err...hmmm, the Gin Blossoms. This town is a retirement mecca more than anything else. There's not very likely to be any kind of significant movement among the young people. They're too busy getting stoned and partying at ASU.

[Hschlick84]

I voted for Prop 205 last year, and that still didn't pass. I want legalization in AZ, but don't think we should become a stoner, hippie or hipster city like San Francisco, Portland, Denver or Austin. The US already have those. There's no reason to make that the main emphasis on why people come here. Attracting one set of demographics isn't good for the area. I believe in a balance.

We should have retirees
We should have professionals
We should have blue collar workers
We should have retail workers

Phoenix needs to embrace it's culture, with the southwest, Native American and desert landscape. That's what makes it unique.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

Sometimes Phoenix stands out from the crowd but in a not so good way.

Certain controversies that have taken place over the years on a state level have affected Phoenix very negatively, I think this has improved recently.

Phoenix is a progressive city that can stand out in a positive way as long as certain knuckleheads in the state government avoid doing things that make Arizona look backward and cause Phoenix to lose out on some good tax revenue.

I agree that Arizona looks backwards to the national media. This is what has prevented people from coming here. We should look towards changing this, and it will be hard because Arizona continues to attract people that align with that kind of thinking.

Originally Posted by MDCB

Agree with the other posters.

I think Phoenix has done a great job expressing culture with Native American roots, high dazzling rich parts of town, etc but it hasn't established itself uniquely and I agree with the OP about this.

I suggested this in the Tucson forum once but I think that if Phoenix was completely solar powered and ushered in new technologies like battery power storage, it would establish a culture. It would empower the city in setting precedents and would be a role model even to states like progressive California.
With this would come brain power from those that would take part in the energy revolution.

Agreed that there isn't a medical school in Phoenix but there are residency programs

Come on Phoenix! Be like Vegas and use the free sunshine in the state to establish yourself in the new energy era!

Nevada recently eliminated its solar power benefits.

I frankly don't see any Native American culture here at all until you go on the reservations, even then most only stick to the casinos and shopping areas that are on the land. Places in New Mexico like Santa Fe and Albuquerque both would put Phoenix to shame here. We could though, if we let them.

I agree with pushing for solar power. People are attracted to the idea of reducing our carbon footprint and using renewable energy. The problem is is that our power companies don't really like the idea of using solar energy, they won't help subsidize or fund it in anyway, or push for cheaper options. Which I don't really understand since that solar energy goes back into the grid and benefits the electric companies too, so maybe I'm missing something.

There is a medical school in Phoenix. It's U of A's downtown campus and it produces around 50 medical graduates every year, and it's been there for a few years now.

Originally Posted by BKDH

It lacks a world class university that could act as driver of innovation and entrepreneurship in the area.

ASU and UofA are great at producing smart and hard working graduates which any company would love to hire, but they are nowhere close to the centers of innovation producing high impact research and startups like UTAustin, UWash or Stanford.

IMO, most of the cities that you mentioned grew on the shoulder of innovations that came out of world class research institutions in/nearby those cities.

Yes they were leaders in innovation and research (except Denver). What would attract innovation and research to Phoenix? One person suggested more renewable energy (solar energy) which I think would be a great idea. What can be done to attract tech workers and scientists to Phoenix? In tech in particular, industry follows them, not the other way around.

Originally Posted by Rico Valencia

I think Phoenix should build a 700-800 ft tall skyscraper shaped like a saguaro cactus to stand out from the crowd. If they built it right, it would be right up there with the Space Needle, Empire State Building and the Golden Gate Bridge as a premier symbol of the region and national importance. Unfortunately, I think the people of Phoenix lack the ambition and creativity to make this happen.

A unique skyline is a fantastic idea. Not sure about a saguaro shape being a good idea for a skyscraper (due to building the arms and such) but nonetheless a great idea to make us stand out from other cities. How many people who aren't from Arizona can recognize our skyline? Very few I'd imagine. I would also propose this skyscraper to have a big viewing deck as well.

Originally Posted by john3232

The Phoenix metro is already looking good to many employers and employees. I own a rental in San Francisco and the city has gotten quite ugly over the past ten years. You've got a percentage of those 30 earning a very nice income, city workers who are also have a good thing going and then there is everyone else. It's not unusual for 4 and 5 adults to live together in home rental home. The cost of housing is often way too high for one two people. In fact the cost of housing almost everywhere in the Bay Area has gone through the roof. Same with San Diego and Seattle.

However, right now the Phoenix metro is on the rise. Housing is still very affordable and no harsh winters. The reputation is changing as well. While the metro not a progressive hot spot it does have a live and let live attitude.

Now, I certainly don't expect home prices to jump almost five times in value like they did over the past 15 years in San Francisco. But I won't be surprised if they double over the next as more companies relocate here.

I hope more companies relocate here. It seems that there aren't many middle-class upper-class paying jobs here. Let's hope these companies provide attractive wages to get people to want to move out here.

Rents have gone up substantially. Most 1 bedrooms are now around $1200 a month.