Full AC replacement recommendations? (purchases, contractors, fence)

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by autism360

That is normal for a heat pump it is not a furnace it extracts heat from outside so it first pushes the cold air out of the ducts and then puts the extracted heat from the outside inside the house but it may only be 10 degrees hotter than inside house temperature and the temperature increases as it warms up the house.

And unlike many areas of the United States, our codes don't require heat pump systems be equipped with an auxiliary heating source, which would turn on during defrost cycles as well as during times where it gets too cold for the heat pump to operate efficiently. Because of this, most installations here in the Phoenix area do not include an auxiliary heating source.

[azriverfan.]

Don't get the cheapest company!!!

You want a reliable company and that will service your unit if there are issues. A lot of these places drop off the face of the earth once your unit is installed. Also, you risk these mom and pop places going out of business which makes your warranty useless.

Generally speaking if they are rude, pushy or "lazy" in the initial assessment, it only goes downhill from there. Don't use them.

[Bird Street]

I understand how a heat pump works. It does not burn fossil fuels to create heat. It moves heat from one place to another. My point is that you don't use one like an old fossil fuel furnace. Don't turn it down to 60 at night and then to 80 when you get up and expect it any to perform any kind of heat blast results. It is more of a climate control that should keep your perfect temperature around the clock. I stopped using gas heat in the 80's. The gas bills got really high. I felt sweaty while the furnace ran and then cold the rest of the time. When I get in my car I turn the key the climate control comes on. I don't have to do a thing. We're not in Kansas anymore. We're in the desert and have the perfect appliance in the heat pump. I love high technology and energy efficiency. I wish we could all have solar and wind assisted geo-thermal heat pumps.

[Bird Street]

One last thought to the OP Eric. Pay attention to any responses from either Ponderosa or Zippyman. I have learned that their posts are rock solid. You can take their advice to the bank. Good luck on your project.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Bird Street

I understand how a heat pump works. It does not burn fossil fuels to create heat. It moves heat from one place to another. My point is that you don't use one like an old fossil fuel furnace. Don't turn it down to 60 at night and then to 80 when you get up and expect it any to perform any kind of heat blast results. It is more of a climate control that should keep your perfect temperature around the clock. I stopped using gas heat in the 80's. The gas bills got really high. I felt sweaty while the furnace ran and then cold the rest of the time. When I get in my car I turn the key the climate control comes on. I don't have to do a thing. We're not in Kansas anymore. We're in the desert and have the perfect appliance in the heat pump. I love high technology and energy efficiency. I wish we could all have solar and wind assisted geo-thermal heat pumps.

Where exactly do you think electricity comes from, trapped lightening? <bold>

[Eric618]

Thanks everyone!

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by jimj

Where exactly do you think electricity comes from, trapped lightening? <bold>

And in Arizona, it is usually by burning coal.

[Eric618]

Originally Posted by Eric618

I had another quote yesterday. Here's what I got thus far, company names redacted, for now...

Company #1
York 14 SEER 12.20 EER - $5600
RHEEM SEER 14 EER 11.70 - $5100
Trane SEER 14 EER 11.50 - $6100

Company #2
Goodman Aspen Coil 14.5 SEER 12.1 EER - $5936
Goodman Aspen Coil 16 SEER 12.8 EER - $6610

Company #3
Carrier 14 SEER 11.7 EER - $7880
Carrier 15 SEER 12.5 EER - $9423

Okay, so I just pulled the trigger on Company #2's 16 SEER system. Part numbers are as follows:

Condenser: Goodman GSX160601
Evap. Coil: Aspen CE60D44210L004
Gas Furnace: Goodman GME80805CN
Thermostat: 3rd Gen. NEST

Any opinions or feedback based on the part numbers?

Thanks again for everyone's input. It definitely helped!

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Eric618

Okay, so I just pulled the trigger on Company #2's 16 SEER system. Part numbers are as follows:

Condenser: Goodman GSX160601
Evap. Coil: Aspen CE60D44210L004
Gas Furnace: Goodman GME80805CN
Thermostat: 3rd Gen. NEST

Any opinions or feedback based on the part numbers?

Thanks again for everyone's input. It definitely helped!

Gsx 160601


https://hvacdirect.com/goodman-4-5-t...gsx160601.html

This is a single-stage "straight cool" unit (not a heat pump). The "16 seer" is frankly bull-stuff in our climate. Irrelevant, because the "seer rating" is based 96% on temps below 96 degrees, and 80% on temps below 80 degrees - you won't likely turn on the a/c here until temps top 80 outside. It's no different than a car manufacturer claiming 50MPG * (as long as you never exceed 25mph). Over 96 degrees, the performance of this (and all other 16 seer units) is "MEH"..


Dsxzc 160601


https://hvacdirect.com/goodman-5-ton...szc160601.html

This is a "two stage" heat pump.

If you want to save money every day when it's *not* 115 outside, this is what you want. It's a "5 ton" unit, but on days when you don't need 5 tons of capacity, it'll automatically spool down & run at something closer to 3.5 tons of capacity.

What does that mean in the real world?

If it's 95 outside & your house is at 80 inside, the low stage of the heat pump will draw 11.7 amps.

The straight-cool single-stage will draw approximately 17 amps.

Here's the meat of my argument :

Using an online calculator, the difference is roughly 2.5kw vs 3.7kw, or roughly 50% more "juice" at the times of the day/year when it's hot enough to run the a/c, but *not* at peak summer temps. If a kilowatt hour costs you a quarter, one unit costs $0.62 per hour to run, and the other costs $0.925 to run. Further, since the single-stage literally can't adjust it's own output- it's more likely to "short cycle " on moderate days. That costs money too - it takes close to ten minutes of continuing run-time to reach that stated 16 seer efficiency. If a unit shuts off in less than ten minutes, it's wasting money. The two-stage will run for longer periods, drawing less amps & have a chance to reach peak efficiency more often, because it isn't always giving you five tons of "cool" when you only need three tons of "cool".

The two stage heat-pump unit does cost more initially, but it does the same work as your gas furnace, so you don't really *need* a furnace and can run a cheaper "air handler" instead + it'll cost you $.30 less per hour to run in the "non peak" cooling season, which is most of the year here. On days when it's 115 out, they'll both draw about the same power.

Not a fan of mixing a non-goodman coil with a goodman condenser - nothing good comes of that - the efficiency ratings are on matched-brand products, nothing wrong at all with aspen coils, except you have no idea what you'll get for efficiency.

I know some people here complain about the heating-side from heat-pumps, but you're just not likely to use very much heat here anyway - vs. you'll use the a/c side for months on end. Anything you can do to reduce that a/c cost is where you'll save the most money.

Fwiw, you can look at all the performance / amp draw data for yourself - just click on the "technical specs" link, grab the chart for the model you're comparing & then compare amp-draw at a given indoor/outdoor temp. That chart is the same one your hvac tech should be using to verify proper operation & spot a high or low refrigerant charge.

[Eric618]

Thanks Zippy!

I know SEER means nothing in this climate, but that is the highest EER rated system as well.

Regarding the up-front cost. I couldn't justify spending the extra money. This was a cash investment, and I couldn't comfortably swing the additional costs for the heat pump. Not without taking a loan, which I don't want to do.