Are the Snowbirds starting to stay? (Phoenix, Scottsdale: transplants, 2014, house)

[Lyndarn]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Is it just me but does it seem like the snowbirds are increasingly remaining in Phoenix over the summer? When I first arrived here in the 1990's, the snowbirds seemed to leave at the start of April. Then in the 2000's, they started to hang around until May. Then around 2010, it seemed like they started to remain until June. Now, it seems like they aren't leaving.

It seems like Phoenix isn't as sparse in the summer like it used to be. A lot of the snowbirds are remaining and instead opting to take weekend trips up north to escape the heat rather than relocate to Minnesota or Michigan.

Personally, I love when the snowbirds leave in the summer. The summer is one of my favorite times of the year. I love how the traffic decreases, restaurants don't have long waits, golf is cheaper etc. But now they are starting to remain.

Any of you notice this?

"Snowbirds" of as you describe as Canadians who travel south during our winter months would never stay. They have a time limit to be residing down there ( 6 months minus a day.. and IF don't return to Canada actually lose their Health Care coverage. Why the Heck would they do that? Unless, they are RICH.. and don't give a darn.. THEY would NEVER ever risk staying beyond the restrictions!!

Maybe the increase you are seeing is more local expansion due to jobs or lack of ability to family plan to keep population from growing??? Who knows.. but I doubt that most would ever put their HC coverage at risk!!!

Canadian snowbirds: Rules you need to know - Canada - CBC News


https://www.ontario.ca/page/ohip-cov...outside-canada

TD Insurance: Canadian snowbirds are taking flight, but is their insurance up in the air? - Consumer Travel Insurance News and Information - Insurance-Canada.ca

It could get complicated~~
https://www.thestar.com/business/per..._timebomb.html

A proposed travel law going through the U.S. Senate could have serious tax consequences for Canadian snowbirds, experts say.

The good news is that the JOLT Act, (Jobs Originated through Launching Travel), would allow Canadian retirees to spend up to eight months, or 240 days, each year in the U.S. without a visa. That’s almost two months longer than the current 182-day annual limit. The bad news is that snowbirds who spend that long in the U.S. may be required to pay U.S. taxes.

“It looks like a great deal. I can be in Palm Springs for 240 days., but they didn’t tell you that it comes with a very high tax cost,” Roy Berg, international tax lawyer at Moodys Gartner Tax Law in Calgary, said in an interview.

The changes, part of a U.S. immigration reform bill introduced in the Senate on April 15, are likely to become law, but it is not clear when they would take effect, observers say.

Would-be holders of the so-called Snowbird or Canadian retiree visa could become subject to U.S. income tax and estate tax, “and would, therefore, inadvertently light the fuse on the Snowbird Visa tax bomb,” Berg wrote in a recent article.

Under the current rules, those who spend more than 182 days out of 365 days in the calendar year, or more than 120 days per year on average over a three-year period, may be considered a U.S. resident for tax purposes.

Point is that it isn't just Canadian laws that enforce limitations.. like the above link indicates.. Snowbirds ( could also get dinged by American laws too!!

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I don't know what you do for a living but I'm a cardiologist so the majority of my patients are snowbirds and elderly. Usually, a lot of my patients leave in the summer. Typically, it slows down for me in the summer. Each year, it seems to be less and less of the case. I've been practicing for over 25 years so I didn't suddenly just get popular,

I can't speak for all of the full-time residents. However, we schedule ALL of our medical appointments in tge months of April and October. When you don't live in the highly urban areas of Arizona, the medical resources in the various communities are stressed by the large influx of snowbirds. If you can avoid the snowbird rush, you will find that you het more time with your doctors.

It has been my experience that the snowbirds tend to be a lot more demanding than the full-time residents.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Lyndarn

"Snowbirds" of as you describe as Canadians who travel south during our winter months would never stay.

The overwhelming majority of our snowbirds are NOT Canadians. They are Americans who reside in the Midwest and East Coast. I was primarily referring to American snowbirds. The law you cite has no bearing on Americans. Your point is moot.

[Bates419]

Canada and the US have a tax Treaty which essentially says whatever a Canadian is required to pay in US Income Tax you get a credit in Canada. Basically you pay the same amount of tax as you would in your home Province but it gets split between Canada and the US based on time spent in each place. And the 120 days over 3 years is gone when you sign your Closer Connection papers and are then considered 100% Canadian with no tax consequences.

Originally Posted by Lyndarn

"Snowbirds" of as you describe as Canadians who travel south during our winter months would never stay. They have a time limit to be residing down there ( 6 months minus a day.. and IF don't return to Canada actually lose their Health Care coverage. Why the Heck would they do that? Unless, they are RICH.. and don't give a darn.. THEY would NEVER ever risk staying beyond the restrictions!!

Maybe the increase you are seeing is more local expansion due to jobs or lack of ability to family plan to keep population from growing??? Who knows.. but I doubt that most would ever put their HC coverage at risk!!!

Canadian snowbirds: Rules you need to know - Canada - CBC News


https://www.ontario.ca/page/ohip-cov...outside-canada

TD Insurance: Canadian snowbirds are taking flight, but is their insurance up in the air? - Consumer Travel Insurance News and Information - Insurance-Canada.ca

It could get complicated~~
https://www.thestar.com/business/per..._timebomb.html



Point is that it isn't just Canadian laws that enforce limitations.. like the above link indicates.. Snowbirds ( could also get dinged by American laws too!!

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by phenomenon

Normally you would see a dip in traffic during the Summer months as the college kids and snowbirds flee back to their home states up North but that is not the case anymore. The freeways are as congested as ever. The lines at the grocery store and the drive-thru are getting longer. I guess it's to be expected when hundreds of new migrants are settling into the Phoenix metro each week. What I don't understand is how some of you believe this is a good thing. Our infrastructure can't cope. Rents will rise as demand increases. They will bring their degenerate political beliefs that destroyed their home city to Phoenix.

Oh please, spare me 😒

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

It also stands to reason as more young families move here, they tend to recruit their parents (aka grandparents for their kids) who want to remain near family as opposed to move to Minnesota for 4 months and live by themselves.

You could also argue that the grandparents are bringing in, or trying to convince their families to "come on down." I know of multiple sets of grandparents that have tried to convince their families to join them. The kids that have moved here are the ones who found work in government, healthcare, and trades. The one family I know that wouldn't come worked in investment banking.

[Minntoaz]

With many northern states having the largest elderly population I'm sure many are opting to just stay down in the valley. Additionally, Phoenix and a few other places are the last "affordable" places in this country. Any metropolitan area on the west coast is more expensive than Phoenix. Not for long though eh?

[wase4711]

Originally Posted by Minntoaz

With many northern states having the largest elderly population I'm sure many are opting to just stay down in the valley. Additionally, Phoenix and a few other places are the last "affordable" places in this country. Any metropolitan area on the west coast is more expensive than Phoenix. Not for long though eh?

you hit the nail on the head!
the best value for your dollar of any major metro area right now...
and, I get to say goodbye to blizzards, below zero temps, and slipping and sliding on the ice all winter..

Also, looking forward to the appreciation on the house we just bought!

[pbenjamin]

Fortunately the winter visitors avoid the middle of the city for the most part. I've never seen much of a difference one way or the other. I did notice one thing this year. I was taking a class this last semester at Scottsdale CC that got out at 1:45. Traffic on the westbound 202 would routinely get backed up around 24th street as it approached the Short Stack, much like rush hour. I attributed it to winter visitors and expected it to go away in April. It never did. As of the final on May 9th, traffic had not thinned out. No idea whether this is evidence of snowbirds staying, though. Could have simply been attributable to the overall population growth.

[BIG CATS]

I haven't seen too many out-of-state plates lately, so I can only assume the ones youre seeing are simply retirees who have made a permanent relocation to AZ. I went hiking last weekend and the Toms Thumb trailhead parking lot was maybe 1/4 full at best. During the winter all of those parking spots are virtually spoken for.