Downtown Scottsdale becoming denser & taller (Phoenix, Mesa: sales, neighborhoods, college)

[singlegirlinaz]

It would be nice if Scottsdale could push to get a higher-class element and fewer clubbers and drinkers.

Friday and Saturday nights are crowded with inebriated idiots way past midnight. They get Uber rides and are so sick they throw up in the cars. I'd hate to be an Uber driver those nights, they can make good money but it's not worth it for all the crap they have to put up with.

[Prickly Pear]

Scottsdale has a Downtown area that is starting to boom (hence this building we are discussing) along with a lively nightlife that doesn't exist anywhere else in the metro (there aren't nightclubs in the rest of the Valley so yes the "drunks" as some people mentioned will be in Scottsdale always since there are only dive bars elsewhere). Yet it is split in half by a very low-density, much wealthier, northern section. As if this doesn't cause a huge divide. While I'm sure the residents in South Scottsdale don't care as much in regards to this building (Paradise Valley and Arcadia residents may) their vote will depend on North Scottsdale forever and always. People in North Scottsdale have little attachment to the Old Town area, considering my entire family and me right now live in North Scottsdale. Thus they may not see the need to invest in something that will help a section of the city that will not help them. It is always a "me, me, me" thing in regards to voting.

Just saying building tall, dense buildings like this is stupid without the public transit to help support it or it will be huge gridlock. Rich millennials my age (the people who are going to look into living in this place, lets keep that in mind, as this will be a "luxury" complex, not middle-class people with kids) enjoy things like light rail and they look for it when they want to move somewhere or invest. It's why many corporations have offices in Tempe now and why in Mesa along Main is improving quite a bit in terms of economic investment (less empty buildings) and building condos and apartments near or along the route. Downtown Phoenix is improving too. It's part of the reason Denver and Portland are doing pretty well right now.

Cars are expensive, they aren't a fixed cost, can cost a lot to maintain on top of insurance and gas. An unlimited monthly pass with the light rail is $64 a month (that also includes the bus). I can't think of a single car including insurance, license fees when that comes around, gas, any repairs that would end up being more cost efficient than the light rail. Many people are starting to look for alternatives. Scottsdale will miss out if they don't invest into things like that.

Why are people in this thread talking about Scottsdale not supposed to have any "bums"? You know where these "bums" come from? Tempe, Mesa, Phoenix, Chandler.... They are the cashier at your local grocery store, the barista at your favorite coffee place, the receptionist at your doctor's office that makes $13/hr, all of these are jobs in Scottsdale so there will be "low-income" bums in and out of Scottsdale on the daily along with broke college students who live in South Scottsdale who commute to ASU. Why is Scottsdale supposed to be "bum-free" but not literally every other jurisdiction in the metro? You have jobs that pay "low-income" bum wages in your city, expect "bums" to be in your city. Where do you think the minimum wage people who shop at Circle K work? You think they commute to an entire other city just to shop at a Circle K? Odds are they work there, so they have to live there, too.

[Thomasaz]

Originally Posted by kent_moore

Wow clusters of downtown.

Is Chandler planning to have a new downtown? They area in WildHorse Pass casino seem a perfect fit for new Chandler downtown.

What are you talking about? This has never been discussed. Where are you coming up with this absurd assumption? The Wild Horse Pass Casino area seems like a terrible location for a Downtown, even if a city were dumb enough to market several different places as its "Downtown." The city has barely developed the actual Historic Downtown area, what makes you think they're capable of making multiple clusters of "Downtowns."

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Thomasaz

What are you talking about? This has never been discussed. Where are you coming up with this absurd assumption? The Wild Horse Pass Casino area seems like a terrible location for a Downtown, even if a city were dumb enough to market several different places as its "Downtown." The city has barely developed the actual Historic Downtown area, what makes you think they're capable of making multiple clusters of "Downtowns."

It isn't even part of the City of Chandler; it is on a Native American reservation.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by singlegirlinaz

It would be nice if Scottsdale could push to get a higher-class element and fewer clubbers and drinkers.

Friday and Saturday nights are crowded with inebriated idiots way past midnight. They get Uber rides and are so sick they throw up in the cars. I'd hate to be an Uber driver those nights, they can make good money but it's not worth it for all the crap they have to put up with.

Agree. I avoid Old Town at night and on the weekends mainly because of the dbags that descend upon it. All I see these new developments bringing in are more pretentious scumbags.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Agree. I avoid Old Town at night and on the weekends mainly because of the dbags that descend upon it. All I see these new developments bringing in are more pretentious scumbags.

The party-all-night drinkers, one of many reasons why I avoid oldtown.

Another reason is the pretentious types you mentioned, and I have posted this fact on here lots of times only to be rebutted by a few posters.

[new2colo]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

150 feet is not exactly a highrise ... more like a midrise. A true highrise would be at least 20 or 30 stories, and condos at that height are what should be built in Scottsdale's downtown/Old Town area. I don't think you'll have to worry about taller buildings all over Scottsdale anytime in the near future ... however, if that should become a reality someday, you'll just have to accept the fact that taller structures belong in a large metro area and it's really none of anybody's business what developers choose to do on their properties.

By Arizona standards, a 150 foot tall building is a highrise. The article you linked in your OP even calls 150 feet a "tower." The only places that will be getting 20-30 story highrises are Tempe and Downtown Phoenix. Scottsdale residents will never allow anything that monstrous in their downtown area. Unfortunately for the developers you cite, they have to get their plans approved by the city. If there is enough vocal opposition from neighbors, the plans more than likely will be denied. Also, towns and cities in Arizona must abide by voter approved general plans that state how land will be zoned and what development limits will be set in place. The majority of voters here are not going to give away their low density lifestyle to vote in having random 20-30 story super towers placed within view.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by new2colo

By Arizona standards, a 150 foot tall building is a highrise. The article you linked in your OP even calls 150 feet a "tower." The only places that will be getting 20-30 story highrises are Tempe and Downtown Phoenix. Scottsdale residents will never allow anything that monstrous in their downtown area. Unfortunately for the developers you cite, they have to get their plans approved by the city. If there is enough vocal opposition from neighbors, the plans more than likely will be denied. Also, towns and cities in Arizona must abide by voter approved general plans that state how land will be zoned and what development limits will be set in place. The majority of voters here are not going to give away their low density lifestyle to vote in having random 20-30 story super towers placed within view.

Point being that the NIMBYs are opposed to practically anything having to do with upward development, even if it's just 5 or 10 stories. If they like their low density lifestyle so much, why the hell are they living in a metro area with a population approaching the 5 million mark? Even though the Phoenix area has historically been low density, that is definitely changing. Those who prefer that low density lifestyle can move to a far flung suburban area or a smaller community ... they have no legitimate reason to keep the city of Phoenix or the inner ring suburbs low density because of their silly mountain views.

[singlegirlinaz]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Point being that the NIMBYs are opposed to practically anything having to do with upward development, even if it's just 5 or 10 stories. If they like their low density lifestyle so much, why the hell are they living in a metro area with a population approaching the 5 million mark? Even though the Phoenix area has historically been low density, that is definitely changing. Those who prefer that low density lifestyle can move to a far flung suburban area or a smaller community ... they have no legitimate reason to keep the city of Phoenix or the inner ring suburbs low density because of their silly mountain views.

Seriously, Phoenix and Scottsdale are not cow towns anymore. When I moved here in 1994 it was like a big hick town but it's changed a lot.

Maybe way back in 1977 it was all right to be against tall buildings and urban centers but the Phoenix Valley didn't even have a million people then. Now that it's one of the largest metros in America it's pretty lame to move here and expect it to retain a small town charm.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by singlegirlinaz

Seriously, Phoenix and Scottsdale are not cow towns anymore. When I moved here in 1994 it was like a big hick town but it's changed a lot.

Maybe way back in 1977 it was all right to be against tall buildings and urban centers but the Phoenix Valley didn't even have a million people then. Now that it's one of the largest metros in America it's pretty lame to move here and expect it to retain a small town charm.

It was more like a large hick town in the 1970s. The downtown & Central Corridor areas were starting to build upward at the time, but we definitely lacked a lot of other amenities such as a good freeway system & adequate transit. The Suns were the only sports team, and agriculture still dominated the landscape in the suburban areas ... even parts of Scottsdale and some areas near MetroCenter had cotton fields.

Things were starting to move forward in the 1980s & 1990s with the addition of freeways, and we added the Cardnials, Diamondbacks, and Coyotes to our pro sports roster. Downtown was somewhat lacking, however, and there was still a push to move a lot of things to the suburbs rather than improving the central core. Two big transit initiatives were rejected ... one being ValTrans which would have added monorail on some of the main streets.

Today, the Phoenix metro area is still one of the fastest growing areas in the nation, and that means we need to keep up with the growth. Inner ring suburbs like Scottsdale and Tempe are becoming taller & denser, and downtown Phoenix is adding more multi story buildings & attracting more residents. It makes no sense to be a metro region of nearly 5 million people and still promote things that worked when this was a much smaller area (sunshine, retirement, snowbirds, mountain views, low density, etc.). NIMBYs will protest anything and everything when it comes to "their" tranquility or "their" views. They need to quit their bitching and accept the fact that development comes with growth, or else they should move to a small town where they don't have to worry as much about progress.