Downtown Scottsdale becoming denser & taller (restaurant, dining, schedule)

[Pink Jazz]

I just wish Scottsdale wouldn't be so anti-mass transit. They will continue to lag behind Phoenix and Tempe in public transit, and even the "conservative" city of Mesa has a better transit system than Scottsdale.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

I just wish Scottsdale wouldn't be so anti-mass transit. They will continue to lag behind Phoenix and Tempe in public transit, and even the "conservative" city of Mesa has a better transit system than Scottsdale.

First step would be trying to get pro-light rail people onto the city council. But even then, don't you think they would have to put the funding for their share (which would be hundreds of millions) up to a city-wide vote, asking people if they wanted to probably pay a higher sales tax, less likely raising property taxes.

PJ, you're still a young lad, who knows maybe in 40 or 50 years, when some of us might be dead, you should still be alive and might finally see light rail in Scottsdale, if you are still living in the Valley. Who knows, we might have flying light rail by then!

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

I just wish Scottsdale wouldn't be so anti-mass transit. They will continue to lag behind Phoenix and Tempe in public transit, and even the "conservative" city of Mesa has a better transit system than Scottsdale.

Again, it doesn't really depend on politics as much as income levels & wealth status. Mesa might be more politically conservative, but it also tends to be lower income overall. Lower income people are the ones who depend on public transit more than those who are upper middle class or wealthy. Light rail and buses do well in Mesa because of demand. In Scottsdale where the incomes are generally higher, there is less demand for public transit. At the same time, it would be nice if a light rail line could eventually run from Central & Camelback to Fashion Square, but it won't happen for a long time (if at all).

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

First step would be trying to get pro-light rail people onto the city council. But even then, don't you think they would have to put the funding for their share (which would be hundreds of millions) up to a city-wide vote, asking people if they wanted to probably pay a higher sales tax, less likely raising property taxes.

PJ, you're still a young lad, who knows maybe in 40 or 50 years, when some of us might be dead, you should still be alive and might finally see light rail in Scottsdale, if you are still living in the Valley. Who knows, we might have flying light rail by then!

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Again, it doesn't really depend on politics as much as income levels & wealth status. Mesa might be more politically conservative, but it also tends to be lower income overall. Lower income people are the ones who depend on public transit more than those who are upper middle class or wealthy. Light rail and buses do well in Mesa because of demand. In Scottsdale where the incomes are generally higher, there is less demand for public transit. At the same time, it would be nice if a light rail line could eventually run from Central & Camelback to Fashion Square, but it won't happen for a long time (if at all).

Valley Native - I don't think it would run down Camelback or Indian School. It would probably connect with the light rail on Rural and Apache. I say this because the millionaires are through there and if it is correlated with income it will never go through there.

I would rather build up light rail in close quarters like a web instead of spreading out to appease commuters, this would create an urban core with easy mass transit that will create an urban fabric, create a higher demand for more public transit (as they probably wouldn't have cars) and so on. Phoenix has so little density the light rail is only profitable in certain areas. Those certain areas should be enhanced, rather than try to create new urban cores or sections along sporadic light rail stops across the Valley (think about how they are expanding the light rail past Mesa's downtown, for an example, or all the way uptown o 19th and Dunlap). They are also putting light rail in south of Central to Baseline, over the 79th avenue and the I-10, and Paradise Valley Mall. Large area with large maintenance. Rather, condensed light rail serving close in neighborhoods can create the areas many "urbanites" are looking for here in Phoenix without creating eyesore tall buildings in places they don't really belong. Of course, I can't go back in time, but that's my opinion. We should be working up to going farther out of the Valley, rather than doing that and infilling public transit later. Infill first, then expand as needed.

Tempe is sort of doing this by putting in a streetcar that works with the light rail. Allows for more development like this building in Scottsdale without being constricted to a few certain places where there are stations. I think there are only two or three light rail stations in Tempe? One of which is on ASU campus and the other is on already built up Mill Avenue? It's something to consider there.

[Java Jolt]

Light rail expansion should include the suburbs especially in the west valley.

One of the lines is proposed to run along I-10 westward from downtown but it's not expected to be completed until 2030.

Meanwhile there are no plans for light rail in Scottsdale, it was voted down by the city council.

Other light rail routes to the south part of Phoenix and northeast Phoenix are in the plans but they won't be done for many years. Those lines will probably operating long before Scottsdale gets light rail approved.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

Light rail expansion should include the suburbs especially in the west valley.

One of the lines is proposed to run along I-10 westward from downtown but it's not expected to be completed until 2030.

Meanwhile there are no plans for light rail in Scottsdale, it was voted down by the city council.

Other light rail routes to the south part of Phoenix and northeast Phoenix are in the plans but they won't be done for many years. Those lines will probably operating long before Scottsdale gets light rail approved.

Note that Scottsdale actually has higher bus ridership than Glendale, but I see Glendale getting light rail first due to Scottsdale's opposition.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

Valley Native - I don't think it would run down Camelback or Indian School. It would probably connect with the light rail on Rural and Apache. I say this because the millionaires are through there and if it is correlated with income it will never go through there.

I would rather build up light rail in close quarters like a web instead of spreading out to appease commuters, this would create an urban core with easy mass transit that will create an urban fabric, create a higher demand for more public transit (as they probably wouldn't have cars) and so on. Phoenix has so little density the light rail is only profitable in certain areas. Those certain areas should be enhanced, rather than try to create new urban cores or sections along sporadic light rail stops across the Valley (think about how they are expanding the light rail past Mesa's downtown, for an example, or all the way uptown o 19th and Dunlap). They are also putting light rail in south of Central to Baseline, over the 79th avenue and the I-10, and Paradise Valley Mall. Large area with large maintenance. Rather, condensed light rail serving close in neighborhoods can create the areas many "urbanites" are looking for here in Phoenix without creating eyesore tall buildings in places they don't really belong. Of course, I can't go back in time, but that's my opinion. We should be working up to going farther out of the Valley, rather than doing that and infilling public transit later. Infill first, then expand as needed.

Tempe is sort of doing this by putting in a streetcar that works with the light rail. Allows for more development like this building in Scottsdale without being constricted to a few certain places where there are stations. I think there are only two or three light rail stations in Tempe? One of which is on ASU campus and the other is on already built up Mill Avenue? It's something to consider there.

Price,Smith,McClintock,Dorsey,Rural,College,Mill, Center Pkwy and Priest are all in Tempe, that's 9 stops

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Price,Smith,McClintock,Dorsey,Rural,College,Mill, Center Pkwy and Priest are all in Tempe, that's 9 stops

Yes, Tempe has more light rail stations than Mesa -- and will continue to do so even after the Gilbert Road extension is finished.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Yes, Tempe has more light rail stations than Mesa -- and will continue to do so even after the Gilbert Road extension is finished.

The street car will add quite a few more stops in Tempe as well.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Price,Smith,McClintock,Dorsey,Rural,College,Mill, Center Pkwy and Priest are all in Tempe, that's 9 stops

oh that's right I forgot it goes a bit north of the 202 also.