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Phoenix metro is a big area and despite a national reputation as being quite conservative the Phoenix and Tempe are fairly liberal, Phoenix for example has had Democratic mayors since 2004 and both cities have developed and passed anti-discrimination equality standards that you’d probably never expect given the national attention the valley usually gets.
On the flip side I’d say Arizona has always been more of libertarian leaning than conservative, it’s a region that prefers to let people live as they may and has kept government fairly small. Generally, this has meant low taxes and a pro-business mentality that’s been very successful. Times have changed a bit and there’s currently a major push by the public to overhaul our failing public education system. This will be an interesting social test as to how low taxes should be and how much do we value a quality education as a fundamental right.
Hopefully that helps a bit, I’ve found everyone here to be fairly accepting in day to day life, after 15 years in the valley my friends span all walks of life from LGBT to straight hardcore Republican and everything in between. Generally most people get along well and I’ve never felt ousted due to having a difference of opinion.
This is my experience coming back from Florida after having been gone for 15 years. I was born and raised in rural Arizona. There used to be a lot of racial tension in Phoenix back in the 70s and 80s. As a Native American who moved back to Scottsdale, it feels like the problems with bigotry of the 1970s have largely faded. The younger generation seems very liberal and open-minded. I've been back for over 6 months and haven't experienced racism similar to experiences of the 70s and 80s - the era of "Billy Jack" in rural AZ with racial tension bursting at the seams. Modern Scottsdale is really mellow.
The venues are there but I still say they aren't that popular with the majority. I can barely get people to go with me to a comedy show at Improv because "Tempe is too far", let alone one of these things.
I grew up in West Valley so I am definitely remembering what it's like to grow up on that side of town. Most residents here in Arizona don't know what its like to grow up here. I spent most of my high school days sneaking out to the north side of Lake Pleasant and having bonfires and beers. Or even more so than that, was hang out in the parking lot trying to figure out what to do. The 21 and up crowd would hang out at dive bars.
I had a hard time finding individual wage statistics, but even 23/hr for two incomes is kinda low for the COL that is here. For two incomes that puts most households just shy above minimum wage. OP is educated beyond high school, which may help bridge that gap. I would say to comfortably afford living on your own here in a one bedroom you need to make at least 20/hr, assuming a nice complex. This is what I'm finding in North Phoenix/Glendale anyway, I know it varies depending on location.
Those few jobs at Amazon and CVS corporate or whatever don't represent the job opportunities for the most of us. I interviewed for 3 jobs at CVS corporate and I couldn't land a single one. In comparison to another similarly sized city, Seattle (almost exact same in the MSA), we are doing poorly on the job front.
I like living here most of the time, I do, I think you are taking my posts the wrong way. I was trying to express what most people my age were interested, which is mostly sports and outdoor activities, and if your interests deviate from that it could be more difficult. It's not that the options are there, it's just that people aren't interested... I am not a person to give someone rosy glasses... I want people to stop moving here and going back. I want people who move here and stay for a while. One of the biggest things that help ground people to a new area is developing friendships. I'm trying to paint an accurate picture.
Your youthful lifestyle of bonfires and beer is pretty much the same as mine growing up in the UP and northern Wisconsin (see "All Summer Long", Kid Rock). We were redneck kids and my own kids who were born here are pretty much the same that way. That might seem odd for a big city like Phoenix, but Phoenix is not really a big city in many ways. A redneck kid can be a happy old geezer here. I find that to be the one saving grace about the place. I have no idea how kids in NYS grow up, but I can't imagine they go to the ballet and eat at fine restaurants for entertainment.
Not to get too far afield, but I saw a few days back where a comedy club is opening at Westgate. If you still live on this side, maybe your friends will go there. They are right. Tempe is too far.
Does the wine/spirit industry mean you tend bar? Cocktail waitress?
My list of negatives.
1.) Food
That's about it.
I haven't found a good bakery. Some people think they are good but they aren't.
No lamb or pig roasts. I don't mean the occasional ones they show on the news. If we had enough of them no one in the Valley would be more than 10 mile away from weekly ones.
No Eastern European food. A Polish festival once a year on 23RD DR. That's about it.
No church food other than pancakes and sausage. Where I came from there would be 25 churches listed with what they were selling that week and this area is 20 times larger.
Other than that I really like it here.
No, I work for a wine/spirits distributor in NY that also has a location in Phoenix. It's a great company, so we're trying to stick to cities where I can transfer within the company.
The venues are there but I still say they aren't that popular with the majority. I can barely get people to go with me to a comedy show at Improv because "Tempe is too far", let alone one of these things.
I grew up in West Valley so I am definitely remembering what it's like to grow up on that side of town. Most residents here in Arizona don't know what its like to grow up here. I spent most of my high school days sneaking out to the north side of Lake Pleasant and having bonfires and beers. Or even more so than that, was hang out in the parking lot trying to figure out what to do. The 21 and up crowd would hang out at dive bars.
I had a hard time finding individual wage statistics, but even 23/hr for two incomes is kinda low for the COL that is here. For two incomes that puts most households just shy above minimum wage. OP is educated beyond high school, which may help bridge that gap. I would say to comfortably afford living on your own here in a one bedroom you need to make at least 20/hr, assuming a nice complex. This is what I'm finding in North Phoenix/Glendale anyway, I know it varies depending on location.
Those few jobs at Amazon and CVS corporate or whatever don't represent the job opportunities for the most of us. I interviewed for 3 jobs at CVS corporate and I couldn't land a single one. In comparison to another similarly sized city, Seattle (almost exact same in the MSA), we are doing poorly on the job front.
I like living here most of the time, I do, I think you are taking my posts the wrong way. I was trying to express what most people my age were interested, which is mostly sports and outdoor activities, and if your interests deviate from that it could be more difficult. It's not that the options are there, it's just that people aren't interested... I am not a person to give someone rosy glasses... I want people to stop moving here and going back. I want people who move here and stay for a while. One of the biggest things that help ground people to a new area is developing friendships. I'm trying to paint an accurate picture.
I get what you're saying, in a city of now about 5 million people there are a lot of different experiences to be had based on where you live and what type of industry you work in. I'm a bit of an odd mix, I love the outdoors, I need career opportunities and I enjoy the arts/culture that a bigger city offers. Phoenix may not do any single one of these things best but I find our combination of each to be difficult to match elsewhere.
Not sure how what I listed doesn't represent the jobs available here. If you have the skills and experience they're looking for getting in shouldn't be a huge challenge given the job growth we're seeing now. Those are just 2 of many other large companies that cover a lot of different industries tech, insurance, banking, finance, manufacturing, retail and so on. We have 16 fortune 1000 companies based in the valley and a ton of others with a large presence here, Amazon and CVS among those.
Your youthful lifestyle of bonfires and beer is pretty much the same as mine growing up in the UP and northern Wisconsin (see "All Summer Long", Kid Rock). We were redneck kids and my own kids who were born here are pretty much the same that way. That might seem odd for a big city like Phoenix, but Phoenix is not really a big city in many ways. A redneck kid can be a happy old geezer here. I find that to be the one saving grace about the place. I have no idea how kids in NYS grow up, but I can't imagine they go to the ballet and eat at fine restaurants for entertainment.
Not to get too far afield, but I saw a few days back where a comedy club is opening at Westgate. If you still live on this side, maybe your friends will go there. They are right. Tempe is too far.
Yeah I was living in Peoria and Arrowhead Ranch in Glendale growing up. It was nice to have Lake Pleasant super convenient like that, but doing things in town was very difficult. Just because of gas and all. Back then the 101 was the only option. Not all of us had cars, I was one of few that did, and we always carpooled.
A hobby I was into when I was younger and many of my peers was dirt bike riding. Canyon is a big ol track that even my dad went to as a kid that wasn't too far, since it's just down the Carefree Highway a tad bit more.
I do believe the activities I did growing up would be different if I lived in Tempe or Scottsdale instead. Hard to say how different they would be though.
Right now I am in East Valley but I am looking at North Phoenix to move to soon and that will put me roughly halfway between both of the venues. Neither of them will be "close" per say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
I get what you're saying, in a city of now about 5 million people there are a lot of different experiences to be had based on where you live and what type of industry you work in. I'm a bit of an odd mix, I love the outdoors, I need career opportunities and I enjoy the arts/culture that a bigger city offers. Phoenix may not do any single one of these things best but I find our combination of each to be difficult to match elsewhere.
Not sure how what I listed doesn't represent the jobs available here. If you have the skills and experience they're looking for getting in shouldn't be a huge challenge given the job growth we're seeing now. Those are just 2 of many other large companies that cover a lot of different industries tech, insurance, banking, finance, manufacturing, retail and so on. We have 16 fortune 1000 companies based in the valley and a ton of others with a large presence here, Amazon and CVS among those.
I just mentioned those because those were the two I applied for, since both had jobs applicable to my industry. I now landed a job in a related yet different type of job, I think a better one I would have gotten with those anyway. If I was in finance maybe I would've seen more jobs. But the truth is many are not going into finance as much as they used to. The big trendy industries are IT and health right now. I am in the health industry.
West Valley is the most affordable part of town (look at housing prices in Laveen, its crazy!) partially because its far from those artistic and cultural amenities amongst some other things. It's honestly a pain if you're in Peoria or Glendale and try to go to Tempe or even Downtown to do these things. I'm not saying they shouldn't be in Downtown or Tempe, I get that it probably serves a better market by being in that area, it just leaves the other half of town out. West Valley has poor infrastructure getting to the other side of town, whereas East Valley doesn't have the issue.
The majority of the Valley (including East Mesa) has a hard time getting to those also. What I am trying to say is that we are too spread out to have all those things so close together and not be building other "hubs" of art/culture areas that can serve other markets. But since they aren't doing that, there is the proof that the markets are just not interested.
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,191,283 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64
You should tell us your field since you make this point in almost every post you make.
I have before and it's not my problem if you don't remember. If you care so much about what I do, start digging through my posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
The salary is only part of the equation. More pay doesn't mean you're better off somewhere else. Like I've said before, I know quite a few people in the bay area that are forced to have roommates even with $100K salaries because rents are so extreme.
I never claimed to know the Director personally, I've taken in some of their shows and enjoyed it. That's sad to hear they're struggling, I wasn't aware of it from my visits and hopefully they're able to find other supporters to fill in where the last person left off.
So that salary part means the lower pay in Phoenix is a good thing? While I don't need a roommate and I'm not going hungry at this time, if I'm unable to relocate before my lease is up and there's another large rent increase (not just where I live, but elsewhere in town), then I may have a problem. Though I have looked for other jobs in town, really I don't want to do that because I have longevity where I am now, don't want to look like a job-jumper because I'd inevitably quit anyway, and frankly I think that switch would keep me in Phoenix longer than I want to be here. This is what I hate about people touting these false promises about Phoenix when others are trying to do research, because they're people in need and people like you can't get past hometown pride and see this town's shortcomings. As I've mentioned, I look around to see how I could be doing elsewhere. My income potential in New York is the best, but that would be further down the road. If I were to move to Atlanta, which is comparable to Phoenix in cost of living, I could easily get a 33%-57% pay increase. In LA, I could downgrade to entry level but the pay would be on par with Phoenix... however, at my stage I could command a much higher wage. I could also do well in DC and Chicago, relative to the cost of living. The crap pay is a Phoenix issue, and long-term it's going to hurt the city.
The past few seasons you could really tell they're struggling, especially in contrast to the current one (?). They've dropped from six shows to five. Normally the season should be underway, but the first show hasn't even been announced this season. At the time of writing this, their website shows the marquee from two seasons ago (not even last season, and nothing from this one). The problem is that they aren't getting enough patrons and other donations, and it's been my experience that the arts aren't well-funded in Phoenix. I think it's mostly the lack of money, which is why I pointed out the convenient locations of those galleries in Scottsdale, which gets its fair share of out-of-town money. I'd be willing to bet those galleries wouldn't survive in most other parts of the Valley because tourists don't typically go to most areas. It's just my impression that arts and culture by and large aren't really a big deal to people in Phoenix.
I have before and it's not my problem if you don't remember. If you care so much about what I do, start digging through my posts.
So that salary part means the lower pay in Phoenix is a good thing? While I don't need a roommate and I'm not going hungry at this time, if I'm unable to relocate before my lease is up and there's another large rent increase (not just where I live, but elsewhere in town), then I may have a problem. Though I have looked for other jobs in town, really I don't want to do that because I have longevity where I am now, don't want to look like a job-jumper because I'd inevitably quit anyway, and frankly I think that switch would keep me in Phoenix longer than I want to be here. This is what I hate about people touting these false promises about Phoenix when others are trying to do research, because they're people in need and people like you can't get past hometown pride and see this town's shortcomings. As I've mentioned, I look around to see how I could be doing elsewhere. My income potential in New York is the best, but that would be further down the road. If I were to move to Atlanta, which is comparable to Phoenix in cost of living, I could easily get a 33%-57% pay increase. In LA, I could downgrade to entry level but the pay would be on par with Phoenix... however, at my stage I could command a much higher wage. I could also do well in DC and Chicago, relative to the cost of living. The crap pay is a Phoenix issue, and long-term it's going to hurt the city.
The past few seasons you could really tell they're struggling, especially in contrast to the current one (?). They've dropped from six shows to five. Normally the season should be underway, but the first show hasn't even been announced this season. At the time of writing this, their website shows the marquee from two seasons ago (not even last season, and nothing from this one). The problem is that they aren't getting enough patrons and other donations, and it's been my experience that the arts aren't well-funded in Phoenix. I think it's mostly the lack of money, which is why I pointed out the convenient locations of those galleries in Scottsdale, which gets its fair share of out-of-town money. I'd be willing to bet those galleries wouldn't survive in most other parts of the Valley because tourists don't typically go to most areas. It's just my impression that arts and culture by and large aren't really a big deal to people in Phoenix.
Your posts literally all the say the same thing but never say what hifalutin job us rednecks don't seem to be able provide you.
I'm resigned to think you just make it up so you have something to complain about while sounding like you have some high powered career. I also think you don't want to say it so that you can't be double checked.
I'm to assume I'll get some sort of rude response followed by an angry rant about how awful things have been for you.
So that salary part means the lower pay in Phoenix is a good thing? While I don't need a roommate and I'm not going hungry at this time, if I'm unable to relocate before my lease is up and there's another large rent increase (not just where I live, but elsewhere in town), then I may have a problem. Though I have looked for other jobs in town, really I don't want to do that because I have longevity where I am now, don't want to look like a job-jumper because I'd inevitably quit anyway, and frankly I think that switch would keep me in Phoenix longer than I want to be here. This is what I hate about people touting these false promises about Phoenix when others are trying to do research, because they're people in need and people like you can't get past hometown pride and see this town's shortcomings. As I've mentioned, I look around to see how I could be doing elsewhere. My income potential in New York is the best, but that would be further down the road. If I were to move to Atlanta, which is comparable to Phoenix in cost of living, I could easily get a 33%-57% pay increase. In LA, I could downgrade to entry level but the pay would be on par with Phoenix... however, at my stage I could command a much higher wage. I could also do well in DC and Chicago, relative to the cost of living. The crap pay is a Phoenix issue, and long-term it's going to hurt the city.
The past few seasons you could really tell they're struggling, especially in contrast to the current one (?). They've dropped from six shows to five. Normally the season should be underway, but the first show hasn't even been announced this season. At the time of writing this, their website shows the marquee from two seasons ago (not even last season, and nothing from this one). The problem is that they aren't getting enough patrons and other donations, and it's been my experience that the arts aren't well-funded in Phoenix. I think it's mostly the lack of money, which is why I pointed out the convenient locations of those galleries in Scottsdale, which gets its fair share of out-of-town money. I'd be willing to bet those galleries wouldn't survive in most other parts of the Valley because tourists don't typically go to most areas. It's just my impression that arts and culture by and large aren't really a big deal to people in Phoenix.
Nobody promised anyone anything and this isn't about pride. It's pretty straight forward actually, Phoenix average wage is about 4% below national average and our cost of living is about 3% below average, making us a pretty average on cost versus salary. If you could make 57% more living in Atlanta go right on ahead and do that, this is clearly not the case for most of us as the average Atlanta hourly wage is $23.76 versus $22.85 here in Phoenix. Not much of a difference.... Every person's situation is different and luckily we live in a world where you can go find whatever city suits you best. But you seem to want to make Phoenix out to be some terrible place because you can't make as much as you claim you can somewhere else, that's pretty crazy. As far as LA goes, I wouldn't personally be interested even if my salary doubled, that is a nice to visit only city in my view.
Just not seeing how arts and culture isn't alive and well here. The 17 year run of NNT, if it's indeed over, must of happened by mistake? Places like the Alwun house, Bentley gallery, Modified Arts, MonOrchid, Coe House, New City Studio, Unexpected gallery, Oasis, 9 the gallery, Chartreuse are all just flukes I suppose? I highly doubt any of these downtown galleries or theaters are receiving an overwhelming amount of support from tourists.
Phoenix Theater Company, one of the longest running West of the Mississippi is some kind of fluke? The ballet, symphony, herberger and so on?
I'm not claiming to be Boston, New York or Chicago. But we've got more than just a little bit going on here and it's pretty cool to see, I think newcomers would actually be surprised to wander around the art galleries downtown if they only knew what they read about Phoenix in the national media.
The majority of the Valley (including East Mesa) has a hard time getting to those also. What I am trying to say is that we are too spread out to have all those things so close together and not be building other "hubs" of art/culture areas that can serve other markets. But since they aren't doing that, there is the proof that the markets are just not interested.
Yeah, the heart of the arts/culture hubs are usually in downtown areas, that's where creatives flock to and ours is actually pretty affordable compared to many others. Hopefully you figure out a means to move closer in if those are the things you want to go to, I know our local artists would appreciate having all the more support they can get.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,587,616 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
Nobody promised anyone anything and this isn't about pride. It's pretty straight forward actually, Phoenix average wage is about 4% below national average and our cost of living is about 3% below average, making us a pretty average on cost versus salary. If you could make 57% more living in Atlanta go right on ahead and do that, this is clearly not the case for most of us as the average Atlanta hourly wage is $23.76 versus $22.85 here in Phoenix. Not much of a difference.... Every person's situation is different and luckily we live in a world where you can go find whatever city suits you best. But you seem to want to make Phoenix out to be some terrible place because you can't make as much as you claim you can somewhere else, that's pretty crazy. As far as LA goes, I wouldn't personally be interested even if my salary doubled, that is a nice to visit only city in my view.
Just not seeing how arts and culture isn't alive and well here. The 17 year run of NNT, if it's indeed over, must of happened by mistake? Places like the Alwun house, Bentley gallery, Modified Arts, MonOrchid, Coe House, New City Studio, Unexpected gallery, Oasis, 9 the gallery, Chartreuse are all just flukes I suppose? I highly doubt any of these downtown galleries or theaters are receiving an overwhelming amount of support from tourists.
Phoenix Theater Company, one of the longest running West of the Mississippi is some kind of fluke? The ballet, symphony, herberger and so on?
I'm not claiming to be Boston, New York or Chicago. But we've got more than just a little bit going on here and it's pretty cool to see, I think newcomers would actually be surprised to wander around the art galleries downtown if they only knew what they read about Phoenix in the national media.
I don't know where you are getting that figure, the median individual in this town earns about $14/hr, but then again, with wage disparity, the average is always higher than the median by quite a bit
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