New addition blocking mountain view (El Mirage: houses, legal, assessments)

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by AZ Manager

Ignore the peanut gallery. Anyone who thinks HOAs in this state are toothless is a moron. We just went through this with a guy who put up a permitted building in his back yard in my HOA. He has a corner lot so loads of room and the HOA denied the building but he started it anyway. They were given a cease and desist when framing began and the tradesmen stopped building right away. The permitted building is now torn down and back to nothing after they took it through the courts, which took ages and was very expensive.

Permits don't mean you can bypass the wishes of an HOA.

Love to hear more details. Got any kind of link. When you say expensive how much are we talking?

[petsandgardens]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Bravo! If the OP actually owned the neighbor's property, she would probably have a legitimate case ... however, more than likely, she doesn't have any kind of ownership stake of the neighboring property, and she certainly doesn't own the "mountain". Therefore, she either needs to put up with it, or move.



Ohhhh, those precious mountain vieewws. Seriously, if gawking at a silly mountain is the only thing that keeps a person emotionally stable, then there is something seriously wrong mentally. If the OP lived in a remote area, a small town, or even in an exurban part of the Phoenix area (such as Fountain Hills), then I could possibly empathize with her ... however, she lives in a neighborhood in a large city. Big difference!

Every place I've ever lived, same with anyone I know....if you have a nice view, which equates to nice location, you pay for it. The better the view, whether water or mountain or valley, or famous city, or restored historic street, the higher the price. And I've never had the experience of living anywhere where that issue was disregarded carelessly.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

While I am sympathetic to the ops story, there are all kinds of things that control property value that are out of our control. Like the neighbors who don't take care of their place and drag their neighbors values down. Or maybe a road expansion that causes more road noise. Or in my case, Luke adding 400 more flights a month and/or if they change their flight patterns. Or maybe section 8 housing is going in close to your home. I can think of another 100 examples which may include your mountain views being obstructed. Most every single reason is under the umbrella of "suck it up buttercup" unless the city or HOA has rules written ahead of time. That's the reality.

If the op hires an attorney, it might be a smart idea to somehow make sure the attorney doesn't take the case knowing it is a long shot to line his pockets. If I was the op, I would (calmly) visit the neighbors HOA to see if he can find an angle. Try to get an HOA employee to see your point of view; I'd play the age card (i.e. act a little feeble). Going isn't the right approach Ask if the permitted city house expansion also got an approval from the HOA. If the answer is yes, I would put my money on the op being SOL.

No one likes to be stepped on. Emotional distress occurs to most people when that happens. But if you take on a fight and you are prone to emotional distress, it might drag you down harder and faster than looking at the back of a newly modified 2nd story home. In life, pick your battles carefully and know your own limits. In reality, the op will probably have two options. Live with the new view or move. Worrying about it will be much more painful to his heart and mind than the subjective newly obstructed view.

[KO Stradivarius]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Ohhhh, those precious mountain vieewws. Seriously, if gawking at a silly mountain is the only thing that keeps a person emotionally stable, then there is something seriously wrong mentally. If the OP lived in a remote area, a small town, or even in an exurban part of the Phoenix area (such as Fountain Hills), then I could possibly empathize with her ... however, she lives in a neighborhood in a large city. Big difference!

This is a little much. No need to say that. There is nothing remotely surprising or mentally unstable about someone who lived in a house with a nice mountain view for >50 yrs, and is now very upset and emotional about someone changing their own little slice of the world. I'd probably feel the same way, and you would too if you are honest. It doesn't really matter where the house is located. Not saying that I am against property owner's rights to build the addition, but give the OP a break with the nastiness. If you had just left out the insulting part, then your points are valid.

[AZ Manager]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Love to hear more details. Got any kind of link. When you say expensive how much are we talking?

I could link you the court case but there is no information there, if you have ever looked at a court case online you will see it just lists the actions taken with the court (filing dates, service dates, decisions, etc.) without any actual case details. My HOA filed 8 cases last year and has already filed 2 so far this year, most HOAs sue like crazy to force payments. This incident was a $5,732.85 judgment plus interest, about $1500 in legal fees and the rest was fines and late fees.

Go to this link and under the business name punch in your HOA and you will see how often your HOA sues it's residents, and click into a few of them and you will see there is no details about the cases. Unless the suit makes the news, and most don't, there really isn't any link to share on a particular case.

Find A Case

This link is another court search that contains mostly crimes, if not only crimes. Most HOA cases are filed in the county courts.

https://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/pub...aselookup.aspx

[pbenjamin]

I'm no lawyer, but when buying property there are deed restrictions (AKA covenants, codes and restrictions) associated with that property which do tell you what you can and can't do with your property. That is usually what an HOA is enforcing when they choose to do something, but individual property owners can sue to enforce them as well. They can and do have precedence over zoning classifications, building permits, etc. Typically people sign them unknowingly when buying the house but later get all pissy and libertarian when asked to abide by them. Some are superceded by law, for example, the deed restrictions associated with our 1941 house says that no Mexican can reside in it unless employed as a servant. Others become invalid when not enforced. I once put a political sign in our yard in NE Phoenix and was told by the neighborhood association that the CC&Rs restricted signs unless posted to sell the house. I consulted an attorney and learned that, since many of the homes in the neighborhood had signs that said "protected by ADT" or something similar, that forbidding mine would be selective enforcement and therefore wouldn't fly. The interesting thing was that without the selective enforcement loophole, the rule actually would have overridden my first amendment right to free speech.

If I had the problem I would take a look at the CC&Rs and see if they say anything about obstructing views. Probably a longshot, but worth looking into.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

I'm no lawyer, but when buying property there are deed restrictions (AKA covenants, codes and restrictions) associated with that property which do tell you what you can and can't do with your property. That is usually what an HOA is enforcing when they choose to do something, but individual property owners can sue to enforce them as well. They can and do have precedence over zoning classifications, building permits, etc. Typically people sign them unknowingly when buying the house but later get all pissy and libertarian when asked to abide by them. Some are superceded by law, for example, the deed restrictions associated with our 1941 house says that no Mexican can reside in it unless employed as a servant. Others become invalid when not enforced. I once put a political sign in our yard in NE Phoenix and was told by the neighborhood association that the CC&Rs restricted signs unless posted to sell the house. I consulted an attorney and learned that, since many of the homes in the neighborhood had signs that said "protected by ADT" or something similar, that forbidding mine would be selective enforcement and therefore wouldn't fly. The interesting thing was that without the selective enforcement loophole, the rule actually would have overridden my first amendment right to free speech.

If I had the problem I would take a look at the CC&Rs and see if they say anything about obstructing views. Probably a longshot, but worth looking into.

I doubt there's an HOA or CC&R's in this older subdivision but I could be wrong. HOA's are more prevalent in houses built in the past 35-40 years

[marino760]

Everyone has a nice mountain view until someone else builds behind them. Cities grow and i doubt very much a mountain view is going to stop the city from issuing building permits. Does anyone seriously think a city is going to stop growing because someone's mountain view is obstructed? We're not talking about a view of the ocean here from a hill top. There's no mention of an HOA. The vast majority of people don't live in HOA communities. If that were the case, the plans would have already been submitted to the HOA and they they don't care.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by asufan

I doubt there's an HOA or CC&R's in this older subdivision but I could be wrong. HOA's are more prevalent in houses built in the past 35-40 years

There are CC&Rs on almost every house in the Phoenix metro unless it’s 100+ years old. Probably no HOA though.

Might also look into the zoning for the area to see if there’s a compliance issue.

[BIG CATS]

Wow, no snide anti-NIMBY comments? This lady's poor case is a reason why many people choose to poo-poo proposals for tall buildings, and I feel bad for her. I mean, if you live downtown (or near to), then being a NIMBY is ridiculous, but people that buy homes near the mountains and get their views blocked is maddening! Best of luck to you, OP. I don't think much can be done. I know you've lived there for 57 years, but maybe its time to sell and find another place where blocking views is strictly prohibited?