School Budget Overrides (Chandler, Surprise, Florence: homes, construction, schools)

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by MGS4EVER

I always vote against them too. My mom worked for the school district and she told me that the money never made it to the teachers or the kids. It went to the administrators pay raises. The top always got the money. So I always vote no to any school bonds or overrides.

Not saying she isn't right. But I'd like to see some proof before I am going to believe someone. Even my mom (a lot of people I know have all kinds of misinformation).

Now if she worked on the budget, then that is more qualifying. Still, I'd like to see the budget and see if it was real. Now if you want your blood to boil, check out this entertaining video (private charter schools):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_ht...e9rOl7&index=7

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

The Surprise area does not surprise me. A lot of retirees from other states. Interesting.

Here's why I voted both Surprise items down:


1) The Budget Override was just an attempt to keep an existing override and made no attempt to show how the district has been trying to control costs at all. Not well laid out to voters.



2) The bond had multiple issues
A) It was written like a kid's Christmas wish list. I want this, and this, and this and OOOh and this shiny thing over here!
B) The scare tactic of saying almost every school was going to get (first and foremost) "Safety & Security Upgrades" without any specifics was obviously an attempt to use fear as a get out the vote tool and people like myself have seen it used elsewhere for decades.
C) The info pamphlet sent to every voter contained only arguments FOR yes votes and not 1 AGAINST comment. Voters don't trust anything that shows only one side.
D) Building 2 new schools? So the district wants existing taxpayers to provide schools so builders can pump out more houses that will probably put pressure on the value of existing houses because people love new stuff? I don't think so.


I have more but I'll save it.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Here's why I voted both Surprise items down:


1) The Budget Override was just an attempt to keep an existing override and made no attempt to show how the district has been trying to control costs at all. Not well laid out to voters.



2) The bond had multiple issues
A) It was written like a kid's Christmas wish list. I want this, and this, and this and OOOh and this shiny thing over here!
B) The scare tactic of saying almost every school was going to get (first and foremost) "Safety & Security Upgrades" without any specifics was obviously an attempt to use fear as a get out the vote tool and people like myself have seen it used elsewhere for decades.
C) The info pamphlet sent to every voter contained only arguments FOR yes votes and not 1 AGAINST comment. Voters don't trust anything that shows only one side.
D) Building 2 new schools? So the district wants existing taxpayers to provide schools so builders can pump out more houses that will probably put pressure on the value of existing houses because people love new stuff? I don't think so.


I have more but I'll save it.

Burning. I appreciate you thinking before you go in auto pilot and vote no. I didn't do any research (normally I do). I'm a Minnesotan so I don't get a vote. So I best use my time to make a few more bucks to pay for more taxes. What I do know is my property taxes have went up a Grand since 2011 (now close to $4K). IF this scaled (getting a Grand out of everyone), I'm not sure what I got for the extra Grand other than more neighbors (and traffic). Well, the island effect helps warm the temps out in the winter. I hate to shiver! lol

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Burning. I appreciate you thinking before you go in auto pilot and vote no. I didn't do any research (normally I do). I'm a Minnesotan so I don't get a vote. So I best use my time to make a few more bucks to pay for more taxes. What I do know is my property taxes have went up a Grand since 2011 (now close to $4K). IF this scaled (getting a Grand out of everyone), I'm not sure what I got for the extra Grand other than more neighbors (and traffic). Well, the island effect helps warm the temps out in the winter. I hate to shiver! lol

That's one of the items I chose not to mention: values and taxes have gone up and the schools have received more money.


If you get a chance to read Fall 2019 Achiever, sent out by Dysart, it's an eye opener to how much they spend and want to spend on items that just aren't vital.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by asufan

People that move into an area with a new build home do pay for roads, lights etc. in the way of impact fees, which the builder has to pay and passes along to the buyer.

Glad these overrides passed (in most areas). Common sense prevails.

Impact fees were cut way back and restricted by the legislature several years ago. The fees can only be collected for certain things like police, fire, water, sanitation, parks - but not school construction. If development fees covered the cost of schools they would not be having bond elections every year to build them.

In any case, the bond for new schools was approved here, but not the override of the override where they wanted to go from 10 to 15%.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Impact fees were cut way back and restricted by the legislature several years ago. The fees can only be collected for certain things like police, fire, water, sanitation, parks - but not school construction. If development fees covered the cost of schools they would not be having bond elections every year to build them.

In any case, the bond for new schools was approved here, but not the override of the override where they wanted to go from 10 to 15%.

I never said anything about the impact fees covering schools, I was clearly addressing the portion of your post complaining that new residents should pay for the new roads and lights etc and I explained that is what impact fees are for. Developers are also required to agree to complete a certain amount off off-site improvements as well before getting final plat approval

[CAHLUV]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

I always vote against the overrides. Living expenses will go up with no tangible benefits to education which is why there's been at least 3 of these since '13. It's never enough and local governments are quick to drag out the tired "what about the children?" propaganda to fleece the public.

I have the same view as you. I voted no but they were passed in my area.

[Hal Roach]

The local governments always seem to forget or make it a secret that they make windfalls when property values go up, like they have been for ten years. Teachers raises are often a lie, too, as they are often getting stipends for esl, special ed, etc.., and they get step increases just for staying employed. My property taxes in Bangkok are zero... guess which place you can easily find a milleneal, who can mix prescriptions, draw blood, account, and draw you a map? It ain't Sunyslope.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Hal Roach

The local governments always seem to forget or make it a secret that they make windfalls when property values go up, like they have been for ten years. Teachers raises are often a lie, too, as they are often getting stipends for esl, special ed, etc.., and they get step increases just for staying employed. My property taxes in Bangkok are zero... guess which place you can easily find a milleneal, who can mix prescriptions, draw blood, account, and draw you a map? It ain't Sunyslope.

In this situation, it seems they get what they pay for because average test scores disagree. From https://wenr.wes.org/2018/02/education-in-thailand-2

"These factors contribute to the fact that Thailand lags behind countries of similar level of economic development in the comparative international OECD “Programme for International Student Assessment” (PISA). In the 2015 test, Thailand ranked 54th out of 70 countries, below the OECD average, as well as far behind high-performing Vietnam. Thailand’s 2015 PISA scores in all three subject areas (science, reading, and mathematics) are lower than its test scores from 2000, when the PISA study was launched."

Call me naive, but I will still pick the milleneal from Sunyslope.

[Hal Roach]

Vietnam are the biggest cheaters this side of china, but what do you think a teacher makes in Vietnam?