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I'll add these points: you want to live in or around Phoenix? Fine, but then accept that agriculture does not belong in a desert region because it consumes a greater amount of water than the millions of people who live here. Want to live around farming? Fine, then move to the nation's bread basket, which is the Midwest where it belongs. I guarantee that if we get rid of all the remaining farming fields on the fringes of the metro area, and replace all of them with newer development, you'll see a substantial reduction in water consumption. You hardly ever mention agriculture as an ENORMOUS water glutton, but instead seem to harp on green grass in people's yards, which amounts to a drop in the bucket (pardon the pun).
The average resident in Arizona uses almost double the water of the average resident in Iowa. Why do you think that is?
We need agriculture to survive, not all of it can be sent from the Midwest. While shipping agricultural products has improved since we started farming over a millennia ago, some just doesn’t work still for long distances. We lead the US with California in winter lettuce production, you want salads in December no? Or when California goes through a food borne illness outbreak and legally cannot send out products, you want other options so we don’t spiral into a famine? Or if we see a Dust Bowl 2022 in Nebraska, you’d want that corn grown somewhere else too right? I mean without the corn grown in the Plains, we can’t supply the livestock industry either. If history taught us anything, it’s don’t put all your eggs in one basket (pun intended). Famines have some of the highest death rates in history, please let us not repeat this.
I will concede a lot of what is grown here is unnecessary, but this is something that is a multi-faceted approach. Again I said this already, industry is the biggest elephant in the room, but we are still an elephant, and therefore also take blame in this problem. All elephants are a problem. Let’s address all the elephants in the room. By shifting blame to something you know you can’t change, you effectively say you don’t truly care about the problem.
People invented farming in deserts, deserts were the reason we had civilization to begin with because farming is what allowed cities to be built and begin to end nomadic lifestyles. This will never change, it didn’t in 4000+ BC and it won’t now. Do we need cotton grown here? No, but we need lettuce.
But since you probably won’t answer my real question as no one else has seemed to do so far, I’ll repeat myself. Why does the average Arizona resident, domestic use only, use almost double the water of a resident in New England or the Midwest? Why are we at 150 GPCD, while they are in the 70s or so? If people in New Mexico can get below the average, then so can we. Arizona is one of the most water wasting states by domestic use in the US, everyone here arguing against me is simply proving my point. Arizonans can and should be doing better. Other Americans can, why are we special snowflakes who get to use more? And trying to deflect this into a “us vs. them” problem doesn’t mean that your neighbors aren’t also being wasteful. Both are a problem, and those of you who have continued to argue with me about this and obtusely ignore this part of the equation would have me believe you are well aware of what I’m saying and deflecting makes you sleep better at night. If the shoe fits, I suppose. Anything to say someone is not also contributing to the problem, right? Anything to shift blame on something else other than themselves?
Until someone here can tell me a solid reason why Phoenicians can use double the water of someone in Vermont and this is somehow morally acceptable when we are in a desert where this is a scarce resource in an ongoing drought and it isn’t in Vermont I’m not going to change what I’m saying. There’s no reason for Arizona citizens, for domestic use, to be using this much more than the US average. So I challenge others to prove me otherwise that using this much domestic water use is acceptable where we live given the current situation. And until someone can prove me otherwise, I’m not going to engage any people attempting to change this topic by shifting focus or blame on something else when talking to me in this thread. Not until they answer my question. Why is Arizonan residential/domestic use double the US average for water?
Since all Americans shower, drink, cook, and do laundry, I know it’s not this. Really sit there and think why we are in the top domestic water users in the entire US yet our neighboring state of New Mexico is not. What separates Arizona from New Mexico, and Iowa?
Last edited by Prickly Pear; 08-12-2021 at 11:19 PM..
The average resident in Arizona uses almost double the water of the average resident in Iowa. Why do you think that is?
We need agriculture to survive, not all of it can be sent from the Midwest. While shipping agricultural products has improved since we started farming over a millennia ago, some just doesn’t work still for long distances. We lead the US with California in winter lettuce production, you want salads in December no? Or when California goes through a food borne illness outbreak and legally cannot send out products, you want other options so we don’t spiral into a famine? Or if we see a Dust Bowl 2022 in Nebraska, you’d want that corn grown somewhere else too right? I mean without the corn grown in the Plains, we can’t supply the livestock industry either. If history taught us anything, it’s don’t put all your eggs in one basket (pun intended). Famines have some of the highest death rates in history, please let us not repeat this.
I will concede a lot of what is grown here is unnecessary, but this is something that is a multi-faceted approach. Again I said this already, industry is the biggest elephant in the room, but we are still an elephant, and therefore also take blame in this problem. All elephants are a problem. Let’s address all the elephants in the room. By shifting blame to something you know you can’t change, you effectively say you don’t truly care about the problem.
People invented farming in deserts, deserts were the reason we had civilization to begin with because farming is what allowed cities to be built and begin to end nomadic lifestyles. This will never change, it didn’t in 4000+ BC and it won’t now. Do we need cotton grown here? No, but we need lettuce.
But since you probably won’t answer my real question as no one else has seemed to do so far, I’ll repeat myself. Why does the average Arizona resident, domestic use only, use almost double the water of a resident in New England or the Midwest? Why are we at 150 GPCD, while they are in the 70s or so? If people in New Mexico can get below the average, then so can we. Arizona is one of the most water wasting states by domestic use in the US, everyone here arguing against me is simply proving my point. Arizonans can and should be doing better. Other Americans can, why are we special snowflakes who get to use more? And trying to deflect this into a “us vs. them” problem doesn’t mean that your neighbors aren’t also being wasteful. Both are a problem, and those of you who have continued to argue with me about this and obtusely ignore this part of the equation would have me believe you are well aware of what I’m saying and deflecting makes you sleep better at night. If the shoe fits, I suppose. Anything to say someone is not also contributing to the problem, right? Anything to shift blame on something else other than themselves?
Until someone here can tell me a solid reason why Phoenicians can use double the water of someone in Vermont and this is somehow morally acceptable when we are in a desert where this is a scarce resource in an ongoing drought and it isn’t in Vermont I’m not going to change what I’m saying. There’s no reason for Arizona citizens, for domestic use, to be using this much more than the US average. So I challenge others to prove me otherwise that using this much domestic water use is acceptable where we live given the current situation. And until someone can prove me otherwise, I’m not going to engage any people attempting to change this topic by shifting focus or blame on something else when talking to me in this thread. Not until they answer my question. Why is Arizonan residential/domestic use double the US average for water?
Since all Americans shower, drink, cook, and do laundry, I know it’s not this. Really sit there and think why we are in the top domestic water users in the entire US yet our neighboring state of New Mexico is not. What separates Arizona from New Mexico, and Iowa?
Most residential water consumption in Phoenix is for irrigation of ornamental plants. Vermont does not need to have a drip system to keep their landscaping from looking like moonscaping. Most of the grass here is gone now from the typical residence and eventually, if water becomes too expensive, the plants will be gone too or replaced by native plants that need no supplemental water.
The average resident in Arizona uses almost double the water of the average resident in Iowa. Why do you think that is?
Two major reasons: population and climate. Arizona has 7.3 million residents compared to 3.1 million in Iowa. Add to the fact that Iowa receives abundant precipitation in all parts of the state compared to Arizona, which is mainly a dry climate with a few notable exceptions. It has little to do with people moving here and demanding greenery in their yards as you suggested.
You said that Arizona uses almost double the water of Iowa. Considering that Arizona has more than double the population of Iowa, that calculates to less water usage per capita in Arizona than Iowa. Here's something you should be aware of: while Arizona (specifically the Phoenix metro area) has grown enormously in the last few decades, our water usage has actually dropped more than 20% over the last few decades. Read for yourself: https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservice.../historicaluse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
We need agriculture to survive, not all of it can be sent from the Midwest. While shipping agricultural products has improved since we started farming over a millennia ago, some just doesn’t work still for long distances. We lead the US with California in winter lettuce production, you want salads in December no? Or when California goes through a food borne illness outbreak and legally cannot send out products, you want other options so we don’t spiral into a famine?
Yes, we need agriculture, but that doesn't mean it has to exist around the metro area. I remember numerous cotton fields & citrus groves, even within the Phoenix city limits back in the 1960s & '70s. Their presence helped lower the overnight low temps, and they served a demand ... however, that was well over 40 years ago when the area still had a semi rural atmosphere. Things have changed a lot since then, and we can no longer focus on what worked here decades ago. We're a major metro area now, and we need to act like it.
Cotton & alfalfa are unnecessary. What remaining fields exist are water gluttons (far more than businesses or homes with green lawns are). I mentioned before that agriculture accounts for nearly 75% of the water consumption. I'll agree that lettuce is necessary, but that's primarily grown around the Yuma area. Fine. Let Yuma County keep the lettuce crop. That's a rural area, and that's where farming belongs. We're in a large city. Farming doesn't belong here, especially when it produces little or no benefit to the local economy. To make matters worse, cotton farmers have received BILLIONS of dollars in federal subsidies over the last 20 years ... about one billion went to Arizona farmers! This is an enormous waste of water and our tax dollars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
Or if we see a Dust Bowl 2022 in Nebraska, you’d want that corn grown somewhere else too right? I mean without the corn grown in the Plains, we can’t supply the livestock industry either. If history taught us anything, it’s don’t put all your eggs in one basket (pun intended). Famines have some of the highest death rates in history, please let us not repeat this.
Do you know what primarily caused the Dust Bowl? Read a little on the subject, and you'll be surprised that it was only enhanced by the drought in the 1930s (not caused by the drought). Let me put it this way: the main reason the SE Valley gets large dust storms/haboobs in the summer is relative to what caused the Dust Bowl. A good amount of our dust problem stems from the idiocy of rural farmers south of the metro area ... and a fair amount of this is on tribal land!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
But since you probably won’t answer my real question as no one else has seemed to do so far, I’ll repeat myself. Why does the average Arizona resident, domestic use only, use almost double the water of a resident in New England or the Midwest? Why are we at 150 GPCD, while they are in the 70s or so? If people in New Mexico can get below the average, then so can we. Arizona is one of the most water wasting states by domestic use in the US, everyone here arguing against me is simply proving my point. Arizonans can and should be doing better. Other Americans can, why are we special snowflakes who get to use more? And trying to deflect this into a “us vs. them” problem doesn’t mean that your neighbors aren’t also being wasteful. Both are a problem, and those of you who have continued to argue with me about this and obtusely ignore this part of the equation would have me believe you are well aware of what I’m saying and deflecting makes you sleep better at night. If the shoe fits, I suppose. Anything to say someone is not also contributing to the problem, right? Anything to shift blame on something else other than themselves?
Until someone here can tell me a solid reason why Phoenicians can use double the water of someone in Vermont and this is somehow morally acceptable when we are in a desert where this is a scarce resource in an ongoing drought and it isn’t in Vermont I’m not going to change what I’m saying. There’s no reason for Arizona citizens, for domestic use, to be using this much more than the US average. So I challenge others to prove me otherwise that using this much domestic water use is acceptable where we live given the current situation. And until someone can prove me otherwise, I’m not going to engage any people attempting to change this topic by shifting focus or blame on something else when talking to me in this thread. Not until they answer my question. Why is Arizonan residential/domestic use double the US average for water?
Since all Americans shower, drink, cook, and do laundry, I know it’s not this. Really sit there and think why we are in the top domestic water users in the entire US yet our neighboring state of New Mexico is not. What separates Arizona from New Mexico, and Iowa?
I answered your question in the first paragraph. Basically, you're comparing apples to oranges. Arizona has a substantially greater population than places like Vermont, Iowa, and New Mexico. More people live Arizona than these states COMBINED. The city of Phoenix alone has nearly 3 times the population of the entire state of Vermont! Add the drier climate into the equation, and of course there is going to be more water usage here. While I realize there is unfortunate water wasting by residents & businesses, we are actually doing pretty well here on a consumption level. As I said before, our water usage has decreased over the last few decades considering our population growth has exploded.
I'm concerned about the drought probably as much as (if not more than) you are. Your level of thinking seems to suggest that it's primarily human caused ... and while you are correct to a certain point, the main cause of it is cyclical climatic/weather conditions. A serious lack of winter precipitation (namely snowpack) along with unusually warm, windy, dry conditions in the last year are the main culprits. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be doing our part, but I think you're harping too much on the little things instead of the big picture.
Last edited by Valley Native; 08-13-2021 at 12:12 PM..
Most residential water consumption in Phoenix is for irrigation of ornamental plants. Vermont does not need to have a drip system to keep their landscaping from looking like moonscaping. Most of the grass here is gone now from the typical residence and eventually, if water becomes too expensive, the plants will be gone too or replaced by native plants that need no supplemental water.
This is the point I’m trying to make. This stuff is 99% for decorative landscaping only and of little use, yet people waste so much time, water, and energy for it. I also make the same argument for pools, who most people would benefit from having a community pool that can be maintained without the time, energy, and money from one family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
Two major reasons: population and climate. Arizona has 7.3 million residents compared to 3.1 million in Iowa. Add to the fact that Iowa receives abundant precipitation in all parts of the state compared to Arizona, which is mainly a dry climate with a few notable exceptions. It has little to do with people moving here and demanding greenery in their yards as you suggested.
You said that Arizona uses almost double the water of Iowa. Considering that Arizona has more than double the population of Iowa, that calculates to less water usage per capita in Arizona than Iowa. Here's something you should be aware of: while Arizona (specifically the Phoenix metro area) has grown enormously in the last few decades, our water usage has actually dropped more than 20% over the last few decades. Read for yourself: https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservice.../historicaluse
Yes, we need agriculture, but that doesn't mean it has to exist around the metro area. I remember numerous cotton fields & citrus groves, even within the Phoenix city limits back in the 1960s & '70s. Their presence helped lower the overnight low temps, and they served a demand ... however, that was well over 40 years ago when the area still had a semi rural atmosphere. Things have changed a lot since then, and we can no longer focus on what worked here decades ago. We're a major metro area now, and we need to act like it.
Cotton & alfalfa are unnecessary. What remaining fields exist are water gluttons (far more than businesses or homes with green lawns are). I mentioned before that agriculture accounts for nearly 75% of the water consumption. I'll agree that lettuce is necessary, but that's primarily grown around the Yuma area. Fine. Let Yuma County keep the lettuce crop. That's a rural area, and that's where farming belongs. We're in a large city. Farming doesn't belong here, especially when it produces little or no benefit to the local economy. To make matters worse, cotton farmers have received BILLIONS of dollars in federal subsidies over the last 20 years ... about one billion went to Arizona farmers! This is an enormous waste of water and our tax dollars.
Do you know what primarily caused the Dust Bowl? Read a little on the subject, and you'll be surprised that it was only enhanced by the drought in the 1930s (not caused by the drought). Let me put it this way: the main reason the SE Valley gets large dust storms/haboobs in the summer is relative to what caused the Dust Bowl. A good amount of our dust problem stems from the idiocy of rural farmers south of the metro area ... and a fair amount of this is on tribal land!
I answered your question in the first paragraph. Basically, you're comparing apples to oranges. Arizona has a substantially greater population than places like Vermont, Iowa, and New Mexico. More people live Arizona than these states COMBINED. The city of Phoenix alone has nearly 3 times the population of the entire state of Vermont! Add the drier climate into the equation, and of course there is going to be more water usage here. While I realize there is unfortunate water wasting by residents & businesses, we are actually doing pretty well here on a consumption level. As I said before, our water usage has decreased over the last few decades considering our population growth has exploded.
I'm concerned about the drought probably as much as (if not more than) you are. Your level of thinking seems to suggest that it's primarily human caused ... and while you are correct to a certain point, the main cause of it is cyclical climatic/weather conditions. A serious lack of winter precipitation (namely snowpack) along with unusually warm, windy, dry conditions in the last year are the main culprits. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be doing our part, but I think you're harping too much on the little things instead of the big picture.
The GPCD rate already factors in population differences, please look up the definition of “per capita” aka meaning per person. So again, why does the average resident in Arizona use almost double the average resident of Iowa? And why this is morally fine in a desert with a drought? We both do laundry, shower, and mop our floors, so what’s the real difference?
And California (much higher pop) than us has a lower GPCD rate assuming you are still neglecting what “per capita” is, your argument there still falls flat. Why does the average Arizona resident use close to double the water of someone in California in domestic use?
New Mexico and Nevada are both desert states with similar rates of aridity and both have lower GPCD than us. So again, why does the average Arizona resident use close to double the water of someone in New Mexico, also in a desert state where it doesn’t rain a good portion of the year?
The Earth goes through a constant state of turmoil as it always has and always will be. Therefore climate change has always existed. However climate change is being noticeably accelerated by human activity, whether by growing coffee beans in South America to be packaged in China and then sent to the US using non-clean fuel and single-use packaging that cannot be broken down, or by its consumers supporting this behavior by buying this product and probably engaging in some degree of waste themselves in other ways. Both macro and micro activities are bad, We cannot keep the Earth how it was in 1925 (noted as the earth being colder than normal in contrast to other time periods) but what we can do is limit how much we are contributing to that change. By blaming the sky and then not changing your individual lifestyle (where it can be improved) one is scapegoating the real issue. Which is that humans with a booming population need to be more considerate and do our parts.
You mention industry being the main culprit to the problem and I agree. Industry cannot survive without customers. Ergo, it’s individual responsibility again. You don’t have to spend your hard earned money to support these companies. There are alternatives. Plenty of Americans can make a loud enough voice economically to tell these industries to stop engaging in wasteful nonsense. The poorest of us who need the cheapest of food just to stay alive cannot, but most Americans are not homeless and unemployed.
I can’t do a rain dance and make it rain no matter how much I may want to (and believe me I do on a cloudy day like this) can however, advocate to people to be more efficient with a scarce resource and what they can do to limit greenhouse gases around the world which should help storms normalize to what they once were (at least closer to) in addition to overseeing my own choices for improvement. Hold yourself to the standards you wish to see in the world, yes?
For the record I don’t disagree with what you are saying (outside of your per capita argument from earlier) but I think too many people in this subforum and Arizona in general play too much scapegoating against X for this problem while standing in a glass house when it comes to water. I believe the phrase is “the pot calling the kettle black”? And that’s why I harp on the micro issues, much easier to fix, and still have a useful impact, instead of scapegoating and blaming California when they can also be better themselves.
With regards to water and grass... below is the lawn in my backyard.
There are patches to be filled but this area was clay dirt eight weeks ago. Today, a little water in the morning/evening and it's fine. The lemon tree is coming along nicely as well.
Pool: Have done my bit by turning off the water fall which runs down the rock structure you see in back.
Yes, they will be coming. When is debatable. What you can do though, is be preventative and make some personal changes to help the environment, instead of leaving it for your kids to become climate refugees.
And while the big targets are obviously businesses, people can do better themselves and because they aren't the worst offenders, doesn't mean they shouldn't be doing their part. They are a bigger elephant in the room, but those of us living here are still elephants in the room.
The average American gallons per capita per day of water use (GPCD) is 80 gallons. Arizona is almost double at 150 GPCD on domestic use only. Out of the Western states, we are not even the worst offenders, but we are in the top four (Utah, Wyoming, and Idaho beat us). If you don't believe me, here's a US Geological Survey study published from data collected in 2015. Look at Figure 4.
California and New Mexico are the only two states in the Western US that *meet* or barely go below the average 80 GPCD that an American uses. This means the states that are meeting and creating this average are in states without water shortages (the entire American West is in water shortages). So the real question, why do people move out here and then use more water than they used to? Probably because they still demand the greenery of back home even though it's not feasible I'd say. No part of the West except coastal Washington or Oregon gets even remotely as green as back East (even that's debatable), doesn't matter if you are in Montana or Alaska it's not going to be as vibrantly green. The sooner people accept brown as part of their regular environment, the better I say. You want to live in Denver? Fine, but accept you live in the Great Plains and not the mountains. You want to live in Flagstaff? Fine, but accept you live in a ponderosa pine forest, not a coniferous one. You want to live in Boise? Fine, but accept you will be living in a transitional desert/plains environment like Denver, not a mountainous forest. You want to live in Salt Lake City? Fine, but then accept you will be in a cold desert with a salty lake next door. The sooner people accept that, the better.
I looked at my usage with 3 people, medium size pool, small lawn and many plants we water via irrigation and some manually. Mom-in-law likes to spray the sidewalk clean of bird crap in the backyard ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
We used 7000-8000 gals per month in June and July*. This calculates to: 8000 (max)/30 days/3 people= ~90 gals max per person per calendar day. Which is not relatively high vs the national average you're quoting. So it would seem that 80 should be generally achievable, and that 150 GPCD sure seems high. Does that figure include agriculture?
I almost bought one of those water monitors, such as a Flo by Moen or Phyn. But based on my research I don't think it would last very long outside exposed to the sun, and I would probably need to cut the interior wall open to install so I passed on that for now. But now that I checked our usage it's not out of the box.
One thing that frosts my azz are the irrigation leaks that can be fixed with a little maintenance. Most of these seem to be in common areas or commercial property. I think that is a shame. It does seem like the shifting soil conditions in the state tend to cause leaks below foundation slabs and probably cracks buried PVC irrigation pipes as well. I know my house was replumbed thru the attic with PEX, which I assume was for this reason.
I also find misters to be contrary to smart water usage. I shudder when I walk past an empty restaurant with the mister blazing away...I question whether those should be used during a water shortage. I'd like to see a comparison of water usage for misters vs pools. Maybe I will look into that if I get bored...
*Note: I find it strange that our bill only lists our usage rounded to the nearest thousand gallons, such as "7" or "8". It seems like they could add at least one decimal place unless the meters aren't capable of that...
Last edited by KO Stradivarius; 08-14-2021 at 12:50 AM..
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,592,398 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
I'll add these points: you want to live in or around Phoenix? Fine, but then accept that agriculture does not belong in a desert region because it consumes a greater amount of water than the millions of people who live here. Want to live around farming? Fine, then move to the nation's bread basket, which is the Midwest where it belongs. I guarantee that if we get rid of all the remaining farming fields on the fringes of the metro area, and replace all of them with newer development, you'll see a substantial reduction in water consumption. You hardly ever mention agriculture as an ENORMOUS water glutton, but instead seem to harp on green grass in people's yards, which amounts to a drop in the bucket (pardon the pun).
The main reason there is agriculture in the Arizona and California deserts is due to the year round growing season, where as in the Midwest, the growing season is only 5-6 months on average, plus, you can't grow citrus in the Midwest, the cold winters don't allow it
The main reason there is agriculture in the Arizona and California deserts is due to the year round growing season, where as in the Midwest, the growing season is only 5-6 months on average, plus, you can't grow citrus in the Midwest, the cold winters don't allow it
Some states that can grow citrus get enough rain. Grow it there.
Some states that can grow citrus get enough rain. Grow it there.
It doesn't shift to other states, it's other countries. Mexico is growing a lot of our citrus now, not other states. Citrus production is declining across the US and we're importing a lot more now.
The USDA said national citrus production declined by about 50 percent between the 2007-2008 and the 2017-2018 seasons. About 6 million tons of citrus were produced in the United States in the latter period: Florida accounted for 36 percent, California 59 percent, and Texas and Arizona made up the final 5 percent.
U.S. imports of citrus have doubled in value over the past seven years. Total U.S. imports of citrus were $1.36 billion in 2020, up 11% from 2019 and up 59% from 2015. Mexico is the top supplier of citrus to the U.S., according to U.S. Department of Agriculture statistics. U.S. imports of Mexican citrus totaled $519 million in 2020, down 4.5% from 2019 but up 51% from 2015.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,592,398 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
It doesn't shift to other states, it's other countries. Mexico is growing a lot of our citrus now, not other states. Citrus production is declining across the US and we're importing a lot more now.
The USDA said national citrus production declined by about 50 percent between the 2007-2008 and the 2017-2018 seasons. About 6 million tons of citrus were produced in the United States in the latter period: Florida accounted for 36 percent, California 59 percent, and Texas and Arizona made up the final 5 percent.
U.S. imports of citrus have doubled in value over the past seven years. Total U.S. imports of citrus were $1.36 billion in 2020, up 11% from 2019 and up 59% from 2015. Mexico is the top supplier of citrus to the U.S., according to U.S. Department of Agriculture statistics. U.S. imports of Mexican citrus totaled $519 million in 2020, down 4.5% from 2019 but up 51% from 2015.
It should be noted that the majority of Florida oranges are used for juice rather than food oranges, California produces the majority of the domestic eating oranges
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