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Except Phoenix is the center of this metro. That’s why it’s called the Phoenix metro, and not the Tempe metro. Just like LA metro is called the Los Angeles metro, and not the Hollywood metro. These things matter. Phoenix is by definition the epicenter. It’s the state capitol, it’s the nation’s 5th largest city, it’s home to some of the nation’s largest parks, the zoo, the airport, the two largest job centers by employment numbers and office space (DT and Midtown) and the fourth largest (Biltmore) and also Kierland. Third is DT Tempe.
If you don’t like the big city, just say so, but the big city is the epicenter of the metro and it always will be. And these suburbs aren’t just a little closer, they are a lot closer. And to me there’s no benefit to paying big city price tags for housing to just be far from the city.
You are incorrect, it is called the Phoenix metro area because Phoenix is the largest city. However, the development and better jobs skew East of downtown, so downtown Phoenix is really the Western edge of things that matter here with Tempe being the center. As far as big cities, I'm from Los Angeles metro and spent a Summer in Manhattan, get outta here with this Phoenix big city nonsense.
You are incorrect, it is called the Phoenix metro area because Phoenix is the largest city. However, the development and better jobs skew East of downtown, so downtown Phoenix is really the Western edge of things that matter here with Tempe being the center. As far as big cities, I'm from Los Angeles metro and spent a Summer in Manhattan, get outta here with this Phoenix big city nonsense.
Phoenix is a big city. Our metro is larger than Seattle, and the size of DC by population. And Phoenix is the core. And this “suburbs are more important than core cities” is 1950s white flight nonsense. There’s not a single metro in the US where the core city is less important than any of its suburbs. And I just proved it to you. Tempe is still largely a university city, Phoenix is not. Phoenix has the most office space, and employment numbers, by any of the suburbs by significant proportions. Phoenix is the core.
And this dynamic applies to all cities. Cores are always more important than suburbs and always will be. Tempe is a “college town” located inside a major metro. Nothing more. Given that you are an asu fan, you probably know how big ASU’s influence is there. Tempe has not evolved to the “city with a major university in it” level yet. I lived one and a half miles from ASU as a working adult for two years, I know how out of place I felt despite still enjoying what the city offered. ASU is the sphere of influence, not DT Tempe. You probably would too if you lived there beyond college. And Southern Tempe is just another version of Gilbert, just closer into town. For the record, Tempe is in the way there, but it still won’t surpass Phoenix in the process. And until DT Tempe overtakes the country’s largest university with close to 80k students, it’s still going to mostly be a university city.
Someone not from here who never ventured out of East Valley probably thinks this. You should spend time on the other side sometime, where the working class live. Getting out of your bubble would benefit you I think. Living in all parts of this valley, I can honestly say Phoenix is the epicenter. I’ve lived in Tempe, Scottsdale, Phoenix, Peoria, Surprise, and Glendale. And I have family all over, from San Tan Valley to Buckeye to Cave Creek. I’ve been everywhere for all of my life and same with my family for all of their lives when they moved here before when we were just a large farming community. None of them would say Tempe is the epicenter, even in 2021. And neither do I. When I lived one and a half miles from DT Tempe, I didn’t think I lived in the core.
Phoenix is a big city. Our metro is larger than Seattle, and the size of DC by population. And Phoenix is the core. And this “suburbs are more important than core cities” is 1950s white flight nonsense. There’s not a single metro in the US where the core city is less important than any of its suburbs. And I just proved it to you. Tempe is still largely a university city, Phoenix is not. Phoenix has the most office space, and employment numbers, by any of the suburbs by significant proportions. Phoenix is the core.
And this dynamic applies to all cities. Cores are always more important than suburbs and always will be. Tempe is a “college town” located inside a major metro. Nothing more. Given that you are an asu fan, you probably know how big ASU’s influence is there. Tempe has not evolved to the “city with a major university in it” level yet. I lived one and a half miles from ASU as a working adult for two years, I know how out of place I felt despite still enjoying what the city offered. ASU is the sphere of influence, not DT Tempe. You probably would too if you lived there beyond college. And Southern Tempe is just another version of Gilbert, just closer into town. For the record, Tempe is in the way there, but it still won’t surpass Phoenix in the process. And until DT Tempe overtakes the country’s largest university with close to 80k students, it’s still going to mostly be a university city.
Someone not from here who never ventured out of East Valley probably thinks this. You should spend time on the other side sometime, where the working class live. Getting out of your bubble would benefit you I think. Living in all parts of this valley, I can honestly say Phoenix is the epicenter. I’ve lived in Tempe, Scottsdale, Phoenix, Peoria, Surprise, and Glendale. And I have family all over, from San Tan Valley to Buckeye to Cave Creek. I’ve been everywhere for all of my life and same with my family for all of their lives when they moved here before when we were just a large farming community. None of them would say Tempe is the epicenter, even in 2021. And neither do I. When I lived one and a half miles from DT Tempe, I didn’t think I lived in the core.
JFC why can't some people here reply more succinctly? No one wants to read 2,000 word posts
You recommended Avondale and Laveen over the much more desirable Gilbert because they are "closer to DT Phoenix". I'm simply pointing out that DT Phoenix is not that amazing and i stick with that opinion. I did qualify the jobs thing by saying "good" jobs, not just jobs. Phoenix is not the hub of the spokes for "good" employment corridors, Tempe is. Period. There's very little West of DT, lots of warehouses and industrial and retail work. Living in DT Phoenix is fine. Choosing Avondale or Laveen to be closer to DT Phx is laughable unless you work there or want to constantly be there.
JFC why can't some people here reply more succinctly? No one wants to read 2,000 word posts
You recommended Avondale and Laveen over the much more desirable Gilbert because they are "closer to DT Phoenix". I'm simply pointing out that DT Phoenix is not that amazing and i stick with that opinion. I did qualify the jobs thing by saying "good" jobs, not just jobs. Phoenix is not the hub of the spokes for "good" employment corridors, Tempe is. Period. There's very little West of DT, lots of warehouses and industrial and retail work. Living in DT Phoenix is fine. Choosing Avondale or Laveen to be closer to DT Phx is laughable unless you work there or want to constantly be there.
This is a forum. If you want to read short posts, make a Twitter account.
Mind telling me what good jobs are in Tempe that don’t exist in Phoenix? Phoenix has plenty of jobs and again DT Phoenix is the largest employment hub in the valley. Second is Midtown. You can continue to deny this but it’s not factually true that Tempe is the hub of this valley.
Your definition of “good” jobs needs to be explained. The government is not good jobs? U-Haul is not good jobs? APS not good jobs? Banner Health is not “good” jobs? Magellan Health? Freeport McMoRan? Republic Services? Best Western? Petsmart? Sprouts? These are all in Phoenix proper. Most of what I listed are in the Downtown or Midtown areas. Some are in Biltmore, like Best Western.
I’m failing to see how warehouse and industrial work is “bad”. Do they pay well enough to support the COL here? If they do, I don’t see the issue. Being a logistics hub is a big deal, you can ask Chicago about how well that worked for them. It sounds like if anything, you are against blue collar work. Or don’t view it as worthy by calling them “bad jobs” and not good ones. A good job to me provides a good quality of life, not whether it sounds accomplished at the country club.
Should West Valley outside of Phoenix diversify more? Sure, but they still aren’t bad jobs. And East Valley can diversify too.
My point still stands that instead of being in one corner from the valley, it’s better to get the best of both worlds, and get a similarly priced place much closer to the metro you want to live in. And that even includes southern Tempe, Mesa, Ahwatukee or Chandler for that suburban environment. Cause apparently west side getting any form of a compliment is a bad thing… not that it’s not the fastest growing part of this metro or anything.
This is a forum. If you want to read short posts, make a Twitter account.
Mind telling me what good jobs are in Tempe that don’t exist in Phoenix? Phoenix has plenty of jobs and again DT Phoenix is the largest employment hub in the valley. Second is Midtown. You can continue to deny this but it’s not factually true that Tempe is the hub of this valley.
Your definition of “good” jobs needs to be explained. The government is not good jobs? U-Haul is not good jobs? APS not good jobs? Banner Health is not “good” jobs? Magellan Health? Freeport McMoRan? Republic Services? Best Western? Petsmart? Sprouts? These are all in Phoenix proper. Most of what I listed are in the Downtown or Midtown areas. Some are in Biltmore, like Best Western.
I’m failing to see how warehouse and industrial work is “bad”. Do they pay well enough to support the COL here? If they do, I don’t see the issue. Being a logistics hub is a big deal, you can ask Chicago about how well that worked for them. It sounds like if anything, you are against blue collar work. Or don’t view it as worthy by calling them “bad jobs” and not good ones. A good job to me provides a good quality of life, not whether it sounds accomplished at the country club.
Should West Valley outside of Phoenix diversify more? Sure, but they still aren’t bad jobs. And East Valley can diversify too.
My point still stands that instead of being in one corner from the valley, it’s better to get the best of both worlds, and get a similarly priced place much closer to the metro you want to live in. And that even includes southern Tempe, Mesa, Ahwatukee or Chandler for that suburban environment. Cause apparently west side getting any form of a compliment is a bad thing… not that it’s not the fastest growing part of this metro or anything.
Wonderful...5 paragraphs to address. Didn't read it all, just skimmed.
To answer your question, most government jobs suck. Remember, you complain you can't afford a house on your salary. After 7-10 years of experience the pay gets ok
Jobs that Tempe has that DT Phoenix doesn't? Didn't the ASU research park on the Tempe/Chandler border just steal a big office from DT Phoenix? Don't forget the GoDaddy HQ, Amkor and thousands of other jobs in the research park. Not to mention the Town Lake area and the Cotton Center. Apollo Group HQ is right in the border of Tempe, not near DT. The entire Price/Pima freeway corridor from Scottsdale to Chandler is packed with jobs. By me in Chandler is the HUGE Intel campus Wells Fargo regional HQ, Northrop Grummon, Microchip, Infusuonsoft,
PayPal, etc.
My point was not to say DT Phoenix has nothing, the point is, it is not the epicenter of good jobs in the valley. Placing yourself in Avondale of all places would be a poor decision merely for the benefit of being "nearer" DT Phx. Gilbert has FAR more in the way of jobs than Avondale or Laveen, lower crime, higher property values and incomes, more restaurants, shopping, better schools, etc. But you stick to your opinion lol
Wonderful...5 paragraphs to address. Didn't read it all, just skimmed.
To answer your question, most government jobs suck. Remember, you complain you can't afford a house on your salary. After 7-10 years of experience the pay gets ok
Jobs that Tempe has that DT Phoenix doesn't? Didn't the ASU research park on the Tempe/Chandler border just steal a big office from DT Phoenix? Don't forget the GoDaddy HQ, Amkor and thousands of other jobs in the research park. Not to mention the Town Lake area and the Cotton Center. Apollo Group HQ is right in the border of Tempe, not near DT. The entire Price/Pima freeway corridor from Scottsdale to Chandler is packed with jobs. By me in Chandler is the HUGE Intel campus Wells Fargo regional HQ, Northrop Grummon, Microchip, Infusuonsoft,
PayPal, etc.
My point was not to say DT Phoenix has nothing, the point is, it is not the epicenter of good jobs in the valley. Placing yourself in Avondale of all places would be a poor decision merely for the benefit of being "nearer" DT Phx. Gilbert has FAR more in the way of jobs than Avondale or Laveen, lower crime, higher property values and incomes, more restaurants, shopping, better schools, etc. But you stick to your opinion lol
Enjoy Twitter then if you don’t want to engage in a meaningful discussion with actual reading to do. Who knew reading was so difficult for someone with such a good job in East Valley.
Most of what you said is not in Tempe they either border Tempe or in other suburbs. That doesn’t mean Tempe is the hub. This is what I’m refuting. Tempe is not the hub of anything, except the university. Phoenix is the hub of many things. You took that to only mean jobs for some reason. Phoenix is the state capitol, holds tons of festivals, concerts, cultural amenities. Most of this valley’s modern history. Not to mention recreation.
I don’t know why anyone would pick a far corner in Gilbert claiming East Valley is all there is when there’s so much more this metro can offer someone, and there’s more affordable suburban areas closer to what this metro offers. You are so far from everything in Gilbert I truly don’t see the appeal unless you want to live in an insular community where you don’t really ever leave Gilbert. And why would anyone want to lock themselves out of more amenities by being farther? I don’t understand. And why you had to argue my suggestions for closer options I don’t understand either, I didn’t even list all of the options. I just picked some on the west side and that was a problem I guess lol. If no one saw value in West Valley no one would live there. There’s obviously value.
Enjoy Twitter then if you don’t want to engage in a meaningful discussion with actual reading to do. Who knew reading was so difficult for someone with such a good job in East Valley.
Most of what you said is not in Tempe they either border Tempe or in other suburbs. That doesn’t mean Tempe is the hub. This is what I’m refuting. Tempe is not the hub of anything, except the university. Phoenix is the hub of many things. You took that to only mean jobs for some reason. Phoenix is the state capitol, holds tons of festivals, concerts, cultural amenities. Most of this valley’s modern history. Not to mention recreation.
I don’t know why anyone would pick a far corner in Gilbert claiming East Valley is all there is when there’s so much more this metro can offer someone, and there’s more affordable suburban areas closer to what this metro offers. You are so far from everything in Gilbert I truly don’t see the appeal unless you want to live in an insular community where you don’t really ever leave Gilbert. And why would anyone want to lock themselves out of more amenities by being farther? I don’t understand. And why you had to argue my suggestions for closer options I don’t understand either, I didn’t even list all of the options. I just picked some on the west side and that was a problem I guess lol. If no one saw value in West Valley no one would live there. There’s obviously value.
My focus is fleeting. Maybe I have a little ADD which is why I have to do 3-4 things at the same time, but I find looong posts annoying and I think it speaks to the arrogance of the author -- especially when they are so incredibly incorrect.
AGAIN, I am not speaking about the entirety of the City of Phoenix, I am talking about DT Phoenix. Drive West of DT and there is NOTHING as far as high quality employment for miles and miles. You have to look REALLY HARD to find a nice $100-120K gig for a college grad with 5 years of experience. The SW Valley is where we put our jails, junk yards, industrial buildings and warehouses. So therefore, since most of the high quality employment is either in DT Phoenix or points East, it is clearly NOT the epicenter of employment.
Gilbert is much better than anything the SW valley IMO. She was just posting those other suburbs as examples of suburbs that are maybe a little closer to DT Phoenix. Some people here are hyper-obsessed with DT Phoenix as if it's the epicenter of the valley -- it really isn't. I look at Tempe as the center of the wheel, with most of the higher end jobs are surrounding that area from downtown to the east valley.
Gilbert doesn't impress me much at all. It's basically an oversized bedroom community, which is similar to Mesa in that regard, except Gilbert has better neighborhoods overall. The layout of the downtown area reminds me of Old Town Scottsdale around 1975ish. Worst of all, Gilbert has a population of over 250,000, but still calls itself a town, and their primary landmark is a water tower. It really needs to grow up and quit behaving like a hick town.
As far as downtown Phoenix being the epicenter: Prickly Pear is correct in this case. It's not only the employment we have to look at, but all the other amenities, such as sports, entertainment, museums, conventions, mass transit, etc. The majority of these things are downtown. The scheduled concerts that I have any interest in attending over the next year are all taking place in downtown venues. Tempe has a great urban vibe along & near Mill Avenue, and a good employment base, but downtown Phoenix still is the primary urban center of metro Phoenix.
Gilbert doesn't impress me much at all. It's basically an oversized bedroom community, which is similar to Mesa in that regard, except Gilbert has better neighborhoods overall. The layout of the downtown area reminds me of Old Town Scottsdale around 1975ish. Worst of all, Gilbert has a population of over 250,000, but still calls itself a town, and their primary landmark is a water tower. It really needs to grow up and quit behaving like a hick town.
As far as downtown Phoenix being the epicenter: Prickly Pear is correct in this case. It's not only the employment we have to look at, but all the other amenities, such as sports, entertainment, museums, conventions, mass transit, etc. The majority of these things are downtown. The scheduled concerts that I have any interest in attending over the next year are all taking place in downtown venues. Tempe has a great urban vibe along & near Mill Avenue, and a good employment base, but downtown Phoenix still is the primary urban center of metro Phoenix.
No, geographically DT Phoenix is definitely on the Western edge of all that matters in the valley, except for maybe one sports venue out in Glendale. The better jobs, the decision makers, the money is all DT Phoenix and points East.
As far as Gilbert, I don't live there but I highly doubt you've been to the more interesting parts of Gilbert lately, they are actually doing an impressive job and they are light years better than Avondale or Laveen, which is the point I was making. Definitely not giving up Chandler for Gilbert but let's not pretend it's on the same level as the other two.
Except Phoenix is the center of this metro. That’s why it’s called the Phoenix metro, and not the Tempe metro. Just like LA metro is called the Los Angeles metro, and not the Hollywood metro. These things matter. Phoenix is by definition the epicenter. It’s the state capitol, it’s the nation’s 5th largest city, it’s home to some of the nation’s largest parks, the zoo, the airport, the two largest job centers by employment numbers and office space (DT and Midtown) and the fourth largest (Biltmore) and also Kierland. Third is DT Tempe.
If you don’t like the big city, just say so, but the big city is the epicenter of the metro and it always will be. And these suburbs aren’t just a little closer, they are a lot closer. And to me there’s no benefit to paying big city price tags for housing to just be far from the city.
So I would consider myself a big city person, from Dublin, maybe I missed a beat when I was in Phoenix, we stayed downtown, close to the stadium and felt the downtown area like a lot of cities I have been to here in the States (excluding NYC) was a big disappointment, well that is not fair, I came with low expectations after we contemplated Boston for our move and that was a big let down. Planning on heading back to Phoenix in a few weeks to look at schools but will be staying downtown again, where would you recommend I go to get that big city feel, I just didn't see it when we were there recetly.
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