If you needed further proof of impending disaster... (Phoenix, Williams: landlord, camps)
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The earth is warming. That's a fact. Greenhouse gasses are rising and that's an indisputable reality. Now, the only question that remains is how much of the temperature change is related to natural phenomena like volcanic eruptions, fluctuations in solar radiation, or tectonic shifts versus burning fossil fuels, farming livestock, or cutting down forests.
Most of the technical people who study this topic for a living are concerned. But for whatever reason, some people with barely an ounce of technical aptitude think it's 100% B.S.! Because their political team tells them that it is B.S. IMO, the truth is somewhere in the middle (partially a natural phenomenon and partially manmade).
My frustration comes with the tree huggers on the other side who refuse to embrace the new generation of nuclear power plants. Because most of them are equally as non-technical as their MAGA counterparts. So while one side thinks it is 100% B.S., the other tofu-eating-deodorant-free-sandal-wearing tree huggers aren't smart enough to figure out how to manage the mandatory need for fossil fuels (by way of nuclear power). Hell, that same camp doesn't want to modify the rivers via dams for hydropower either!
Meanwhile, 90%+ of the people without the capability of understanding the needed math and science to make an informed decision, are giving their worthless opinions. We will eventually find out where the truth lies. Not this 58-year-old because I will be dead. But my kids and pending grandkids will be suffering.
All that said, 80 degrees in PHX at the end of January is a single meaningless data point.
The earth is warming. That's a fact. Greenhouse gasses are rising and that's an indisputable reality. Now, the only question that remains is how much of the temperature change is related to natural phenomena like volcanic eruptions, fluctuations in solar radiation, or tectonic shifts versus burning fossil fuels, farming livestock, or cutting down forests.
Most of the technical people who study this topic for a living are concerned. But for whatever reason, some people with barely an ounce of technical aptitude think it's 100% B.S.! Because their political team tells them that it is B.S. IMO, the truth is somewhere in the middle (partially a natural phenomenon and partially manmade).
My frustration comes with the tree huggers on the other side who refuse to embrace the new generation of nuclear power plants. Because most of them are equally as non-technical as their MAGA counterparts. So while one side thinks it is 100% B.S., the other tofu-eating-deodorant-free-sandal-wearing tree huggers aren't smart enough to figure out how to manage the mandatory need for fossil fuels (by way of nuclear power). Hell, that same camp doesn't want to modify the rivers via dams for hydropower either!
Meanwhile, 90%+ of the people without the capability of understanding the needed math and science to make an informed decision, are giving their worthless opinions. We will eventually find out where the truth lies. Not this 58-year-old because I will be dead. But my kids and pending grandkids will be suffering.
All that said, 80 degrees in PHX at the end of January is a single meaningless data point.
What the temp is specifically today in MN or PHX right now is irrelevant. The average temp of the earth is "warming"! That's an indisputable fact. Many people who study this topic for their vocation have models that show that at least part of the warming of the earth is from greenhouse gases. What should be semi-obvious is that the weather patterns are becoming more extreme. Overall warming does NOT mean that every place in the world goes up by X amount of degrees.
If someone has an opinion, I'd hope they can understand the previous sentence listed in bold. When someone says "it's freezing in _____________, so much for global warming" proves they don't understand that a warming earth (for whatever reason) == wider variations in weather patterns.
Or saying it another way: "As carbon dioxide, methane, and other gases increase, they act as a blanket, trapping heat and warming the planet. In response, Earth's air and ocean temperatures warm. This warming affects the water cycle, shifts weather patterns, and melts land ice — all impacts that can make extreme weather worse." Source: NASA. https://climate.nasa.gov/extreme-wea...eather%20worse.
Have you stopped eating meat? Fish?
Do you grow your own food?
What is the temperature right now in your house?
Does your house has 18” walls and very well air-sealed and insulated? How many sq feet of living space per person does your family occupies ? How many cars?
How many kWt of energy do you use every months? Anything you do to use less?
Do you travel?Fly?Buy things made overseas?
Do you have a walk-in closet jam packed with clothes and shoes you haven’t seen in years and forgot you have it but buying more?
Inquiring minds want to know what actual changes your family has made to help the planet and the mankind;
So far I just hear”the sky is falling” from you.
Answer those “worthless opinions” questions truthfully - we may follow your lead, you seem “technically educated”
Or do you prefer that those hundreds of millions people who just managed to install a single electric light bulb in their huts for the first time and started using cellphones and chargers for their survival hassles go back to times without?
They shouldn’t enjoy the a/c on occasion when they go to the store or government office?
The people in the north of great advanced China still poop in plain view next to their houses, same as a lot of people in India…
You realize that in your short (from a planetary point of view) life the population grew from under 3 billion to pushing 8?
Are you ready to enjoy your 1 light bulb and walk the rest of your life?
Or are you ready to get real?
80 In Phoenix in January is here to stay it seems. Put on your seat belt for another ride!
Last edited by L00k4ward; 02-01-2024 at 02:06 PM..
On a positive note, all the extra CO2 in the air has made the Earth greener than it's been in over 30 years. More CO2, more plants to convert it into oxygen. So basically what I'm saying is that Earth has a way of figuring itself out. The kitchen is not on fire.
No, the people who understand science and think they are powerful enough to alter universal law if they can force their zeal onto others.
January thaw is an expected event for those of us who have lived in MN long enough. I remember a coatless walk in the country at seventy-two degrees. Another is the late March High School Basketball Tournament blizzard.
You know who I feel sorry for? All those hardy folks who lived through the Ice Ages. If they had sufficient historical perspective they must have wondered what in the heck they did wrong and probably sacrificed a lot of stuff trying to set things right again.
Tell me you don't understand science without telling me you don't understand science.
The earth is warming. That's a fact. Greenhouse gasses are rising and that's an indisputable reality. Now, the only question that remains is how much of the temperature change is related to natural phenomena like volcanic eruptions, fluctuations in solar radiation, or tectonic shifts versus burning fossil fuels, farming livestock, or cutting down forests.
Most of the technical people who study this topic for a living are concerned. But for whatever reason, some people with barely an ounce of technical aptitude think it's 100% B.S.! Because their political team tells them that it is B.S. IMO, the truth is somewhere in the middle (partially a natural phenomenon and partially manmade).
My frustration comes with the tree huggers on the other side who refuse to embrace the new generation of nuclear power plants. Because most of them are equally as non-technical as their MAGA counterparts. So while one side thinks it is 100% B.S., the other tofu-eating-deodorant-free-sandal-wearing tree huggers aren't smart enough to figure out how to manage the mandatory need for fossil fuels (by way of nuclear power). Hell, that same camp doesn't want to modify the rivers via dams for hydropower either!
Meanwhile, 90%+ of the people without the capability of understanding the needed math and science to make an informed decision, are giving their worthless opinions. We will eventually find out where the truth lies. Not this 58-year-old because I will be dead. But my kids and pending grandkids will be suffering.
All that said, 80 degrees in PHX at the end of January is a single meaningless data point.
You say that you understand the necessary math and science to make an informed decision, yet you are quibbling about whether climate change is due to human activity or naturally occurring - when the correlation between increased CO2 and the growth of industrialization and fossil fuel use is indisputable.
To me the real question is whether there is any solution to the problem at this point. I think our kids and grand-kids are going to be suffering regardless of how many climate summits take place, because our puny efforts will be far too little too late.
We are definitely in agreement that a single 80 degree day in January in Phoenix is not indicative of anything in and of itself. Analyzing vast global data sets over long periods of time is the only way to gain a true understanding.
Does your house has 18” walls and very well air-sealed and insulated? How many sq feet of living space per person does your family occupies ? How many cars?
How many kWt of energy do you use every months? Anything you do to use less?
Do you travel?Fly?Buy things made overseas?
Do you have a walk-in closet jam packed with clothes and shoes you haven’t seen in years and forgot you have it but buying more?
Inquiring minds want to know what actual changes your family has made to help the planet and the mankind;
So far I just hear”the sky is falling” from you.
Answer those “worthless opinions” questions truthfully - we may follow your lead, you seem “technically educated”
Or do you prefer that those hundreds of millions people who just managed to install a single electric light bulb in their huts for the first time and started using cellphones and chargers for their survival hassles go back to times without?
They shouldn’t enjoy the a/c on occasion when they go to the store or government office?
The people in the north of great advanced China still poop in plain view next to their houses, same as a lot of people in India…
You realize that in your short (from a planetary point of view) life the population grew from under 3 billion to pushing 8?
Are you ready to enjoy your 1 light bulb and walk the rest of your life?
Or are you ready to get real?
80 In Phoenix in January is here to stay it seems. Put on your seat belt for another ride!
You put me in the wrong bucket. I never said you cannot eat fish, fly, drive, heat your house, etc. 1st thing 1st: people need to recognize that adding in a massive amount of greenhouse gasses == warming the average temp of the earth. Right now, too many people think it is complete B.S. And it normally comes down to politics. I already said warming (and cooling) has ALWAYS been related to other natural forces. The only question that remains in my POV is how much of this temp warm-up is from man and how much from natural forces.
I recognize that the USA represents a measly 4% of the earth's population. With China applying for 2 coal power plant permits PER MONTH, we just might be going in the wrong direction. a.k.a. we are screwed. https://energyandcleanair.org/public...rld%20combined.
In the meantime, while people are still debating if a blanket of gasses causes the earth to warm, I'm enjoying my hybrid car, warming and cooling my two homes (solar and geothermal), etc. Not because I'm trying to save the planet, rather, I'm trying to save my money. I think we should build several thousand nuclear power plants (THEN EV's can be more helpful to the environment now that Sodium-Ion batteries are shipping in cars.) Because it's NOT about turning over every rock to reduce your "carbon footprint". Rather, it's about outputting less CO2 than is absorbed. And that's out of my control.
To summarize, I have no control over the policies or what China or India does. I mean, because of politics, no one is capable of convincing a lot of people that man could have an impact on the climate. We are where we are.
You say that you understand the necessary math and science to make an informed decision,
I never said I understood their modeling (math and science). I'm an engineer, but I'd have to study the heck out of it. I bet the farm I'm going to agree with the majority who study it for a living.
What I am saying is a bunch of non-technical (far, far, far less than me) are convinced everything we are seeing with the climate is because of their political belief. With one camp, it is man-made. And the oceans are going to rise several feet if we don't stop eating beef and quit burning fossil fuels. I'm also saying a lot of equally non-technical people are 100% convinced it is B.S. Again, because of their political belief: i.e. man has NO control. Their "proof" is by showing the world's temp changes over time.
I'm saying that most are in no technical position to be convinced of either extreme POV. All I know is that a blanket of gas over the earth can warm it. And I also know that things like volcano eruptions impact the temp, too. Hence, I'm technical enough to understand that I'm not technical enough to be so damn bold in my assertion. You might need to read that last sentence twice.
OOOOOOooooo now y'all riled up the Climate debaters.
It was 80° a couple of days ago. Today's high is 60°. It rained all night. Williams is supposed to get like 10" of snow. By that evidence it must mean AZ is getting colder and more wet since Phoenix's average high in January is 67°.
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Because their political team tells them that it is B.S. IMO, the truth is somewhere in the middle (partially a natural phenomenon and partially manmade). 
a.k.a. we are screwed. 
I think we should build several thousand nuclear power plants (THEN EV's can be more helpful to the environment now that Sodium-Ion batteries are shipping in cars.) Because it's NOT about turning over every rock to reduce your "carbon footprint". Rather, it's about outputting less CO2 than is absorbed. And that's out of my control.
