If you needed further proof of impending disaster... (Phoenix: taxes, costs)

[Greenvalleyfan]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Because it's good to pump pollutants into our atmosphere?

Yeah...that's smart.

More feel good arguments with no intelligent thought process. What makes you think anyone that owns a car that burns gas wants pollutants in the atmosphere. Until we have a viable alternative that moves society from point a to point b, gas vehicles it is.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

I could say pretty much the same thing for those who want to simply continue the gas guzzlers, etc. Big oil -- "a lot of money and power at stake here. The loudest voices [against] climate change advocacy are also poised to make a lot of money by [not] changing our very standards of life. Like you always say, follow the money. The regular folk who worship at the alter [of the big oil] cult are simply the idiots of our time".

This is far from the truth. First off, oil/gas is what started the Industrial Revolution and what made us into the modern marvel our country currently is. We've been using fossil fuels for a long time. No one stands to make more money than is currently already being made. This ball has already been rolling for quite some time.

Second, I don't recall ever seeing useful idiots throwing fake blood on paintings in support of Big Oil. I don't recall Big Oil advocates blocking traffic with human shields because they want us to continue using fossil fuels. There is no big oil cult. There is no Greta Thunberg supporting Exxon Mobil. Get real.

Your rebuttal was so futile, because you know I'm right. The best you can think of is to change my words around instead of forming your own logical position.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

This is far from the truth. First off, oil/gas is what started the Industrial Revolution and what made us into the modern marvel our country currently is. We've been using fossil fuels for a long time. No one stands to make more money than is currently already being made. This ball has already been rolling for quite some time.

Second, I don't recall ever seeing useful idiots throwing fake blood on paintings in support of Big Oil. I don't recall Big Oil advocates blocking traffic with human shields because they want us to continue using fossil fuels. There is no big oil cult. There is no Greta Thunberg supporting Exxon Mobil. Get real.

Your rebuttal was so futile, because you know I'm right. The best you can think of is to change my words around instead of forming your own logical position.

Wrong. Steam started the industrial revolution, notably Fulton's steamboat in 1807 that made rivers navigable in BOTH directions, quickly, reliably, and at vastly lower costs. It also powered the textile industry in New England and Europe which were ravenous for cotton from our southern states, both before and after the Civil War, which the North won on the back of its system of standardized steam railroads that criss crossed Union territory. Steam allowed much bigger mills to be built almost anywhere rather than strictly on rivers or streams with moving water. Canals in the northern USA are subject to low water levels (drought), high water levels (floods) and hard water (the damned things freeze in the winter). Canals were notably expensive and very slow. Steam railroads put canals out of business as canals have 3 major weather problems. Steam made water-powered textile mills obsolete since water powered mills were also subject to high, low and hard water issues as were the canals. Steam railroads, my father's career, connected the nation like never before. Steam was the power; wood was the first fuel and coal took over until railroads ended steam trains in the 1950s. Oil and gas came much later.

Big oil doesn't need a cult; thanks to the execrable Citizens United ruling big oil has tens of billions of dollars to spread around federal and state legislatures to protect their existence, derail moving to renewable energies and keep us locked into progressively warmer summers, which is what I expect this year will be. Anyone cheering for big oil/gas is probably an oil man, stockbroker, stockholder or a victim of industry and political propaganda.

The term "useful idiots" goes back at least as far as Josef Stalin of USSR infamy. His machinery used thousands of local thugs to murder opposition persons and that the term Stalin used to describe the suckers who did his dirty work. Eventually Stalin had the thugs killed too, to be sure they didn't turn on him later. Dictators do that sort of thing; so do some politicians who take advantage of underlings then throw them under the bus. It's a shame that poorly educated persons are used shamelessly by cynical types. Fan boys for various industries or personalities could be considered a form of useful idiot, though I prefer we not use the word 'idiot' in our posts here.

Let's get back on topic .... what do we expect this summer has in store for Phoenix?

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Wrong. Steam started the industrial revolution, notably Fulton's steamboat in 1807 that made rivers navigable in BOTH directions, quickly, reliably, and at vastly lower costs. It also powered the textile industry in New England and Europe which were ravenous for cotton from our southern states, both before and after the Civil War, which the North won on the back of its system of standardized steam railroads that criss crossed Union territory. Steam allowed much bigger mills to be built almost anywhere rather than strictly on rivers or streams with moving water. Canals in the northern USA are subject to low water levels (drought), high water levels (floods) and hard water (the damned things freeze in the winter). Canals were notably expensive and very slow. Steam railroads put canals out of business as canals have 3 major weather problems. Steam made water-powered textile mills obsolete since water powered mills were also subject to high, low and hard water issues as were the canals. Steam railroads, my father's career, connected the nation like never before. Steam was the power; wood was the first fuel and coal took over until railroads ended steam trains in the 1950s. Oil and gas came much later.

Big oil doesn't need a cult; thanks to the execrable Citizens United ruling big oil has tens of billions of dollars to spread around federal and state legislatures to protect their existence, derail moving to renewable energies and keep us locked into progressively warmer summers, which is what I expect this year will be. Anyone cheering for big oil/gas is probably an oil man, stockbroker, stockholder or a victim of industry and political propaganda.

The term "useful idiots" goes back at least as far as Josef Stalin of USSR infamy. His machinery used thousands of local thugs to murder opposition persons and that the term Stalin used to describe the suckers who did his dirty work. Eventually Stalin had the thugs killed too, to be sure they didn't turn on him later. Dictators do that sort of thing; so do some politicians who take advantage of underlings then throw them under the bus. It's a shame that poorly educated persons are used shamelessly by cynical types. Fan boys for various industries or personalities could be considered a form of useful idiot, though I prefer we not use the word 'idiot' in our posts here.

Let's get back on topic .... what do we expect this summer has in store for Phoenix?

Wikipedia served you well. Regardless, my facts may have been a little off, but my main point still remains.

And I never called anyone on this forum an idiot. It is a term that has historical and current significance.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

Wikipedia served you well. ...

Wikipedia serves ALL of us well, if we use it. Before anyone starts blowing smoke, NO, Wikipedia is NOT owned, funded, operated or controlled by George Soros.

You're dates weren't off, they simply are total fiction. Oil and gas did not fuel the start of either the first or second industrial revolutions. It was steam and coal that did the job. Wikipedia is our friend.

[amattaro]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

I had the same thoughts as you. Yes, it was only a couple days earlier than the average day for 'first 80-degree day' but IMO it is a harbinger of a long hot summer. Probably longer and hotter than the last.

What makes one warm winter day “harbinger of a long hot summer. Probably longer and hotter than the last.”?

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by amattaro

What makes one warm winter day “harbinger of a long hot summer. Probably longer and hotter than the last.”?

That this early warm day actually occurred is, taken as a whole with all the other climate news coming forth, causes me and others to believe we will have another summer that's hot, hotter, or the hottest on record, which has been happening with alarming regularity. Believe whatever you wish. I'll go with the science and make my own choices that are informed by the science and not by the political chattering class.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

That this early warm day actually occurred is, taken as a whole with all the other climate news coming forth, causes me and others to believe we will have another summer that's hot, hotter, or the hottest on record, which has been happening with alarming regularity. Believe whatever you wish. I'll go with the science and make my own choices that are informed by the science and not by the political chattering class.

What will those be?

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

What will those be?

I'll let you figure that out.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

I'll let you figure that out.

So you predict that this summer we'll hit record highs and face, as the OP says: "impending disaster," but you won't share any of your plans or ideas? That's strange.