Light Rail Stations - Where's the Shade? (Phoenix, Douglas: school, fence)

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by CheyDee

Frankie, or whatever, if you lived in NYC then you know most people who use public transit use the trains (underground), especially when the weather is bad. Some use umbrellas when it rains, but almost nobody uses one when it snows. You may not have noticed everything people carried, because many NY-ers carry shopping bags and use both of their free arms to carry them, (because they are not carrying umbrellas). In NYC, many people even carry an extra pair of shoes and travel to work wearing their sneakers.

I suppose next you are going to tell us how much $ you saved purchasing your house here in AZ, since you didn't buy one with air conditioning? After all, you know it is the desert and it is supposed to be hot, therefore, you love the heat no matter how blazing it gets. And... when you do go to Chicago in the winter, do you not wear a coat? You know it's winter there and supposed to be cold, therefore, shouldn't you just embrace it?

Much of what you write makes no sense to me.

LOL, your argument makes no sense since we are talking about the OUTDOORS. I could careless what people do inside their homes, but obviously a light rail station will not be running indoors. If some people wanted, carrying an umbrella for sun protection would be like wearing a coat, gloves, scarf, etc for the cold. And yes, I've seen plenty of people use umbrellas in the snow, it stops the snow from piling on top of ones heads...most notably women who do not want to mess up their hair too much.

And yeah, if you live in a region with a particular type of weather pattern, cold winter v. hot summer...or BOTH, then you must learn to adapt and "embrace" the climate. With public transit in NYC, yes underground but you do realize you have to walk extensively above ground despite that fact, right? Sometimes for minutes at a time maybe even 10 or 15 minutes!

[Valley Native]

Based on how blasting hot it is here from June through September, it really doesn't make sense why there aren't shade trees at the light rail stations. Better yet, there could even be misters or cooling systems at the stops. I hope they consider installing those. The way it is now, the stations are all concrete and metal. That doesn't reduce the effects of the heat ... they actually increase heat levels.

But even if shade trees or misters would be installed, there will always be people who like to complain. Some would bellyache about the shade trees attracting too many birds that poop on their hair or clothes. Others would whine about the misters adding too much humidity to the air & straightening their hair, etc. You can't satisfy everyone!

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Based on how blasting hot it is here from June through September, it really doesn't make sense why there aren't shade trees at the light rail stations. Better yet, there could even be misters or cooling systems at the stops. I hope they consider installing those. The way it is now, the stations are all concrete and metal. That doesn't reduce the effects of the heat ... they actually increase heat levels.

But even if shade trees or misters would be installed, there will always be people who like to complain. Some would bellyache about the shade trees attracting too many birds that poop on their hair or clothes. Others would whine about the misters adding too much humidity to the air & straightening their hair, etc. You can't satisfy everyone!

Very true, or complain about water issues and wasting water for misters. There are some stations with trees, but only the largest like those at Central and Camelback, Roosevelt and Central, Rural Rd., Sun Devil Stadium, Mill Ave, etc because they are wide enough to support the leaf canopies of trees. I think they were pretty creative with growing vines and other plants in-between the metal screens and panels to block the sun at differing angles.

[dc1225]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Very true, or complain about water issues and wasting water for misters. There are some stations with trees, but only the largest like those at Central and Camelback, Roosevelt and Central, Rural Rd., Sun Devil Stadium, Mill Ave, etc because they are wide enough to support the leaf canopies of trees. I think they were pretty creative with growing vines and other plants in-between the metal screens and panles to block the sun at differing angles.

Personally, Im mad that they did not put in air conditioning in the waiting area so I don't ever plan on using the rail!

[shiphead]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Based on how blasting hot it is here from June through September, it really doesn't make sense why there aren't shade trees at the light rail stations. Better yet, there could even be misters or cooling systems at the stops. I hope they consider installing those. The way it is now, the stations are all concrete and metal. That doesn't reduce the effects of the heat ... they actually increase heat levels.

But even if shade trees or misters would be installed, there will always be people who like to complain. Some would bellyache about the shade trees attracting too many birds that poop on their hair or clothes. Others would whine about the misters adding too much humidity to the air & straightening their hair, etc. You can't satisfy everyone!

I'm surprised they used tree's. I would be scared of the roots coming to the surface and damaging the rail.

[blkgiraffe]

The stations here in Houston don't have shade either,and its much hotter here,but we still have good ridership numbers. Don't worry, this system is really going to transform PHX and I'm pretty sure the TODs will start developing along the rail line creating density along side it.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

great answer - so instead of planning to make a mega expendature a little more comfortable for the tax payers who supported it, it's best to just dismiss them as people who should expect the sun

by that same logic, what is it with all these urban center people trying to make phoenix dense and transit reliant? - don't they realize it's always been car based and any attempt to change that is just stupid.............. i mean there is a reason they ripped out the street cars long before all of those cold weather refuges moved in

people down here aren't going to carry umbrellas for shade - not going to happen - like it or not most would consider that an inconvenience

on central there are no trees, or large buildings shading the stations - the pictures i provided are what you get and I imagine it's probably worse when the tracks start running east west and you have the direct morning and night sun beating down on people - at least they will be able to slide down platform away from the sails to find shadows cast

it's not a matter of trying to change phoenix from being hot, or complaining about the heat - it's about smart planning, understanding you customers and funders and creating the best solutions

i was here to vote yes on the proposition to fund this thing (which I did, btw) as well as other infrastructure items tied to that bill ....... most of them have been executed in typical AZ fashion

We both were wrong about something here. They ARE planting trees along the stations, especially those along Central Ave; Central and Roosevelt, Central and McDowell, Central and Heard Museum, Central and Thomas, basically all of them. They have just begun to dig the holes for the trees and they are already planted on Central and Roosevelt and delivered to McDowell and Heard Museum stations. Many of the trees are already 10-12 feet in height. I've heard that trees in Arizona develop good sized leaf canopies within 2 years...is this true? From what I have seen, the trees planted in front of my building were planted two years ago during renovation and are pretty big already. I've heard this is due to 2 "growing" seasons within a year in this part of the country.

[joninaz]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

We both were wrong about something here. They ARE planting trees along the stations, especially those along Central Ave; Central and Roosevelt, Central and McDowell, Central and Heard Museum, Central and Thomas, basically all of them. They have just begun to dig the holes for the trees and they are already planted on Central and Roosevelt and delivered to McDowell and Heard Museum stations. Many of the trees are already 10-12 feet in height. I've heard that trees in Arizona develop good sized leaf canopies within 2 years...is this true? From what I have seen, the trees planted in front of my building were planted two years ago during renovation and are pretty big already. I've heard this is due to 2 "growing" seasons within a year in this part of the country.

Are the trees along the stations or along the roads? I can't imagine them putting trees too close to the overhead powerlines. A variety of trees grow very well here and very fast, so they probably wouldn't put many within a pretty good distance as they'd need constant haircuts to avoid conflicts with the wires/trains. But they can and should put more trees along the the corridors. Many have mentioned NY, MN and other cities in this conversation, where stations are really close to the front doors of office buildings (and whose lobbies cater to commuters, with coffee shops, eateries, etc.) In Minneapolis, for example, one can seemingly walk through most of downtown without actually going outside, thanks to their tunnel/tube system. Outside of downtown PHX and Mill Ave, almost every other section requires a bit of a hike for many to arrive at the stops. Having shade along the route would help.

[CheyDee]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

LOL, your argument makes no sense since we are talking about the OUTDOORS. I could careless what people do inside their homes, but obviously a light rail station will not be running indoors. If some people wanted, carrying an umbrella for sun protection would be like wearing a coat, gloves, scarf, etc for the cold. And yes, I've seen plenty of people use umbrellas in the snow, it stops the snow from piling on top of ones heads...most notably women who do not want to mess up their hair too much.

And yeah, if you live in a region with a particular type of weather pattern, cold winter v. hot summer...or BOTH, then you must learn to adapt and "embrace" the climate. With public transit in NYC, yes underground but you do realize you have to walk extensively above ground despite that fact, right? Sometimes for minutes at a time maybe even 10 or 15 minutes!

It is your argument which makes little sense, particularly when you compare here with places such as NYC. You do NOT have to walk extensively above ground in NYC and never 10 or 15 minutes to the subway, since there are bus stops or train stations on just about every single block. In the outer boroughs it is a different story and many people there drive to the train station, but not in Manhattan.

And no, most people do NOT use umbrellas in the snow. I don't know where you get these ideas from.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by CheyDee

It is your argument which makes little sense, particularly when you compare here with places such as NYC. You do NOT have to walk extensively above ground in NYC and never 10 or 15 minutes to the subway, since there are bus stops or train stations on just about every single block. In the outer boroughs it is a different story and many people there drive to the train station, but not in Manhattan.

And no, most people do NOT use umbrellas in the snow. I don't know where you get these ideas from.

I lived there, have you? If not then I don't know where you are getting your ideas from. Especially the idea that no one walks for 10 of 15 minutes above ground. That is the rule, not the exception. NYC is a very walkable city, probably the most walkable in the U.S.