Light Rail Stations - Where's the Shade?

[dc1225]

Originally Posted by NytoPhx

The scope of the light rail is terribly small. It basically only goes from central Phoenix, to downtown, to Mill Avenue and then into Mesa, if you don't live in these areas, and most don't you're out of luck. Seriously, for the amount of money and time spent on this, you would think it would be a more extensive metro. One metro line simply does not cut it for an area of this size.

DC, whose metro system probably has to encompass a smaller-sized area, has easily 5 or 6 of these lines. There is no reason Phoenix' metro system can't have as many lines as DC's.

I think they bought into that "if you bulid it, they'll come concept"....to me you need to have a condensed population for the rail to make sense which phx does not have, yet but Im assuming that they're thinking that more and more peeps are going to be moving downtown....why they wouldn't stretch the rail out to scottsdale is beyond me.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by NytoPhx

The scope of the light rail is terribly small. It basically only goes from central Phoenix, to downtown, to Mill Avenue and then into Mesa, if you don't live in these areas, and most don't you're out of luck. Seriously, for the amount of money and time spent on this, you would think it would be a more extensive metro. One metro line simply does not cut it for an area of this size.

DC, whose metro system probably has to encompass a smaller-sized area, has easily 5 or 6 of these lines. There is no reason Phoenix' metro system can't have as many lines as DC's.

I missed this comment while discussing the finer points of monorails with FC80. The "only one line" argument is one of the most frustrating complaints I hear about Phoenix's light rail project. The argument is flawed in several respects:

First, there are very few rail transit systems that are built all at once. The DC Metro system opened in 1976 with only 4.6 miles. It took until 2001 to complete the Green Line and bring the system to its current status. Phoenix should be commended, rather than criticized, for its ambition in buildng a 20-mile starter line. In fact, Phoenix's starter line is among the longest ever built. Compare it to other recently opened starter lines: Houston, 7.5 miles; Minneapolis, 12 miles; Charlotte, 9.6 miles. Phoenix is starting out with twice the average track length.

Second, no one has ever suggested that the 20-mile starter line is all there is to light rail in Phoenix. As a result of voter approval of Proposition 400 in 2004, there are now 37 more miles of light rail planned. The starter line will be extended at least three miles at each end, and several new lines are planned in other areas. Phoenix's system is likely to grow -- just like every almost every other light rail system built in recent memory.

Third, it's incorrect to say that people are out of luck if they don't live near the rail route. When rail service starts in December, several bus routes will be realigned to intersect with rail. Some commuters who now transfer from one bus line to another will instead transfer from bus to rail, allowing them to enjoy the faster speed and more comfortable ride associated with rail for a portion of their commutes. In addition, there will be thousands of park-and-ride spaces available at designated stations along the line. Transit does not have to be door-to-door in order to be effective. Even if people drive halfway to work and then get on a train, it's better than having them drive all the way.

Finally, the route of the starter line is a logical one. It connects university and college campuses, offices of all levels of governments, corporate headquarters, entertainment districts, cultural facilities, and sports venues. The only improvement might be a detour into Old Town Scottsdale, but Scottsdale's chronic fence-sitting and hand-wringing about transit makes that route impossible for the time being.

See the glass as half full rather than half empty. Phoenix's light rail is a bold and ambitious start to what will become a larger network. It starts in the right place and will build steadily from there.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by NytoPhx

The scope of the light rail is terribly small. It basically only goes from central Phoenix, to downtown, to Mill Avenue and then into Mesa, if you don't live in these areas, and most don't you're out of luck. Seriously, for the amount of money and time spent on this, you would think it would be a more extensive metro. One metro line simply does not cut it for an area of this size.

DC, whose metro system probably has to encompass a smaller-sized area, has easily 5 or 6 of these lines. There is no reason Phoenix' metro system can't have as many lines as DC's.

It also goes to Glendale - You only described half the route - It passes by many educational and employement centers.

There is also the new routes being studied that will enhance the rail.

Like DC - you cannot do the whole system all at one time.

Give light rail a chance.

[sablebaby]

Originally Posted by dc1225

I think they bought into that "if you bulid it, they'll come concept"....to me you need to have a condensed population for the rail to make sense which phx does not have, yet but Im assuming that they're thinking that more and more peeps are going to be moving downtown....why they wouldn't stretch the rail out to scottsdale is beyond me.

Scottsdale doesn't want it.

[Ben Around]

As a Twin Citian, I find this discussion interesting. The naysayers in this discussion sound just like the ones who vociferously opposed the Minneapolis LRT: there's only one line; it doesn't go near my house; no one will ride it; who's going to wait for a train when it is 20 below zero?; it's just for the poor; it'll hurt my business; it'll be a crimne-magnet; the trains will be too loud, it'll disrupt traffic, buses are better, the trains will be filthy and loud; they won't run on schedule; highways are better, etc., etc.

The Minneapolis line opened over 4 years ago and consistently exceeds ridership projections. Suburbanites keep demanding that a line be built to their suburb. New businesses have sprung up around the stations, and existing businesses have gotten shots of adrenalene. Transit usage is the highest it's been in 50 years. Neigborhoods near the stations are gentrifying, and new condos are springing up within walking distance of the stations. No, everyone doesn't love it or use it, but certainly enough do to justify it. It's single line is the fisrt leg of a multi-legged system of LRT and commuter rail. It really is an investment in the future. Our region is projected to grow in the next several decades. I'm sure yours is projected to grow at a much faster rate. Ignore transportaion imporvements like LRT at the risk of paralysis in the future.

[barryhussein]

You are correct, Ben. One of the earlier whiners mentioned the difficult task of carrying her umbrella for shade. JFC, I've used the subway to go to the airport for trips lasting more than six months. A lot of folks just have too much baggage.

[dc1225]

Originally Posted by sablebaby

Scottsdale doesn't want it.

REALLY? wow...its prolly the older folks who don't want more noise and riff raff.

[Husker Fan]

We are very excited about the light rail system. Even though our house is in east Mesa I understand there is a station that goes to west Mesa? We love baseball so the idea of being able to get downtown on the light rail for a baseball game and not have to hassle with the traffic or parking is awesome. I know we'll still have to drive to the west Mesa station but the convenience from that point on will be well worth it. And there is a chance one or both of us may be working downtown once we get moved down there. With the price of gas I can't believe people aren't jumping on the light rail bandwagon.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Husker Fan

We are very excited about the light rail system. Even though our house is in east Mesa I understand there is a station that goes to west Mesa? We love baseball so the idea of being able to get downtown on the light rail for a baseball game and not have to hassle with the traffic or parking is awesome. I know we'll still have to drive to the west Mesa station but the convenience from that point on will be well worth it. And there is a chance one or both of us may be working downtown once we get moved down there. With the price of gas I can't believe people aren't jumping on the light rail bandwagon.

Yes, the station in west Mesa will be at Sycamore and Main. That's just east of Dobson next to the site of the old Tri-City Mall. There will be over 800 parking spaces there. A few years down the road, it's likely the route will be extended east into Downtown Mesa, although the exact routing is still being worked out.