Phoenix vs Tucson vs Alburquerque vs Vegas (Mesa, Scottsdale: apartments, crime rates)

[Tiger Beer]

Phoenix vs Tucson vs Alburquerque vs Vegas

Was thinking in several categories.. jobs, wages, housing, libraries/bookstores, movie theaters, etc.

Particularly cost-of-living in relation to jobs and housing prices.

Can anyone take on these four cities.. or one or two of them and give some comparisons?

[mhouse2001]

Tucson: higher crime than Phoenix, wages probably lower than Phoenix, but housing is comparable. Tucson benefits from being a college town, but it is very isolated and growth is probably 1/8th what it is in Phoenix. Not much pollution, but I've heard their water isn't that great. With 21 years of experience in Phoenix, I can say Tucson has only two things going for it: slightly cooler summer days/evenings, and a magnificent mountain backdrop.

Albuquerque: also high crime, very difficult to traverse, very spread out (it seemed larger than Phoenix to me when I last visited). Very old community with confusing streets and inadequate freeway system. I've read about terrible commutes--you must live near where you work. Probably the best weather of the cities on your list as summers are rarely over 100 and it does get a couple of inches of winter snow. Housing cheapest of the cities on your list and increasing. College town, which I think is a good thing. Also isolated in my opinion.

Las Vegas: I cannot recommend Vegas to anyone for any reason. Extreme crime, racially divided city, gambling and all the scum that that brings, gang problems, traffic problems...what's to like? As hot as Phoenix in July, but actually gets winter with snow and cold days. Windier and drier than Phoenix, also as barren as the moon. Housing shot up and now it's in freefall, with prices expected to drop by about 8% this year. Las Vegas grew too fast and it shows. Infrastructure is lacking, construction everywhere. If you're an unskilled moth, Vegas is the flame that attracts you to your demise. A hellhole if ever there was one.

Phoenix: Well, I guess you can tell I'm partial. Yes, we have crime and we do have winter air pollution (it's dust, NOT smog). Yes, housing shot up due to speculation and it's now dropping slowly. I find pay rates are higher here than in San Diego but housing is about 60% of what San Diego costs. Rents are increasing this year. Right to work state, so not much in terms of workers' rights. Phoenix is easy to get around once you understand our large grid system and if you drive 40mph, you'll hit all the stoplights right. Phoenix is the hottest of the cities on your list--we had 11 nights last summer where the temperature failed to drop below 90, a record I believe. But, we also had our first below freezing days this January for the first time in 17 years. Central Phoenix has neighborhoods with trees and shade (they cost more) and the suburbs stretch to the horizon. The best way to enjoy Phoenix is to live centrally, in town, because you'll eventually tire of having to drive everywhere if you live in the suburbs. Of course, everything depends on where you work and your commute. Get a job first! THEN decide where to live. I'm partial to Central Phoenix as a good area, but there are some truly crappy areas as well, things can change dramatically in two blocks, so drive around alot when you arrive. People like North Scottsdale (say Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd. and Scottsdale Blvd. area) and Tempe since it's a college town with a lot happening in it. Many like the suburban areas of Chandler and Gilbert, but I find them to be too far away from everything. I've lived in many places, and I need a place with a center, a downtown. Phoenix has that (though it's not like Chicago or San Francisco by any means) and Tempe also has a downtown. All the other places are bona fide suburbs with downtowns that pass for mere neighborhood centers in my opinion. It's not for everyone, but winters are sublime, and summers are great to escape from: San Diego, LA, Vegas (what?!), Grand Canyon, and mountain cool air (well, if 90 degrees is cool) less than 2 hours by car. If your from the Midwest, there are plenty of Phoenicians that you'll find comfort and friendliness in.

[aj661]

I can agree with most of what mhouse2001 had to say, but some things are relative. Personally I think downtown Phx is to far away but thankfully, I seldom need to drive there anymore. Mesa, Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert and Scottsdale are all pretty much self contained in regards to generic shopping, restaurants, movies. Gilbert is a great town if your raising a family. When we lived there we were in a very quiet neighborhood within walking distance of Freestone Park. (We moved to far east Mesa because my wife works in AJ). Definitely factor in where you're going to work before buying!

Having all of the sports venues downtown and on the west side is a great thing. We no longer have to deal with the traffic problems. The Renaissance Festival is the only headache we have left out east and that's only on weekends for two months of the year.

I have a friend who works for Vegas Metro PD. He and his family are out of there as soon as he retires for all the reasons given by mhouse2001.

I never liked Tucson. I had to live there for four months. I'll take the view of the Superstition Mtns over the Catalinas any day.

The west side of Alphabet, NM is a good place to stop for gas when we drive to north Texas.

[tucsondesertdweller]

whoo, ok, I need to disagree with some of the posters, in terms of mountains and desert and natural scenery, I say its
Tucson over Phoenix, Tucson is literally surrounded by mountain ranges, every area of the city and suburbs is or has mountain views.
In fact at the top of the Catalina Mts, there is Mt. Lemmon over 9,000 ft, with a small ski area up there.
Ok, for jobs , go for Phoenix.
Weather, I think Tucson is nicer then Phoenix.
Crime, not sure I think both have their share.
It depends on what you are looking for, what stage of life you are at.
However I will say we moved to the Tucson area from the east coast, originally we looked in some of the Phoenix area suburbs, very nice, but we were told to check out the Tucson area, we did. After we saw the more desert and southwest area's of Tucson, we forgot about anything in the Phoenix area. Again if you are looking to replace the desert with your grass yards, etc, then you may like Phoenix better.
Sadly Tucson is becoming more like Phoenix due to the greedy growth industry.

[aj661]

tucsondesertdweller, you nailed it with the comment, "It depends on what you are looking for..." It is not a matter of whether the Phoenix area is better than Tucson*; it's all about personal preference!

I have to admit, growing up here I developed a bit of a bias against Tucson. Okay, maybe I hated Tucson, but that was a mostly an ASU-UA football thing

The Phoenix metro area - not Phoenix the city, is also surrounded by mountains, however you can't stand in the middle and see them all around; the area is too large and the mtns too short. I grew up with a distant view of the Superstitions and next door to Camelback mountain. Now I'm next door to the Superstitions with a distant view of Four Peaks.

Grass yards; that used to be true, but not so much anymore. During my childhood I think people wanted to create a personal oasis in the desert. As kids we liked it because we could play tackle football. During the '60s, you knew which families came from out of state - They actually PLANTED cactus in their yards! The population of the entire state was only about 1.5million when we moved here in 1962- Water was not an issue in the Phoenix area thanks to the Salt River Project. Tucson never had the water reserves available to Phoenix, which probably accounts for the historical grass vs dirt difference. (I still have grass in the backyard. I've been surrounded by cactus most of my life and it's nice having that little green oasis with a cement pond)


*it simply is

[Tiger Beer]

okay, i'm 36 and soon-to-be-married.

i'm ruling out Tucson.. i'm sure the mountains are gorgeous.. but if the jobs aren't there like phoenix.. thats a negative then. i also can't help but think if its a university town.. then tempe might be similar in that respect - if i want that element?

Phoenix looks ideal.. although i've driven through it on the highways.. and hate how it spreads out forever.. takes forever to drive across - much like los angeles. but i might have to take another trip and really get into the different areas of the city.

Las Vegas.. i'm staying here now with my fiance who lives here. Definetely jobs.. I really like the architecture of the apartments with the balconies.. generally very new and clean.. palm trees. there does seem to be jobs and opportunities.. i actually like all the different people coming through the airport all the time (people from around the world on vacation). but negatives are the sounds of ambulances all of the time.. and the kind of people this city attracts - people without many skills looking to 'get rich' and end up homeless often. the people who live here and the people who visit here are two totally different kinds of people.

ABQ is a city i've never been before.. but curious about it.

[tucsondesertdweller]

You need to take several visits before moving period.
Do you and your SO have good jobs in Las Vegas?
Why not stay in that area?
We made at least 5 trips out here before moving here. We came out at different times of the year also.
Remember that visitng or vacationing is different then day to day living.I think I would also like Las Vegas but supposedly housing there is more expensive then here in Arizona.

[Tiger Beer]

Actually I'm working abroad.. and she has a job in Vegas that she could do in any of those cities quite easily.

In short, we aren't settled in Vegas.. whenever I'm finished with my contract abroad, we have the luxery to start a new in whichever city we were to choose.

[Tiger Beer]

Thanks for all the info!

Phoenix sounds most interesting.. but depends on which branch you post the question on..

[MaimounaKande]

I agree you have to go check it out for yourself b/c which "feels" better is going to depend on you..your personality, etc. and no one can answer that for you.

Phoenix is probably better than Tucson for jobs, that's true.

Crime...that totally depends where you are living. Downtown Tucson has some, so do parts of Phoenix. Other areas in Tucson have just about none (like Oro Valley which has one of hte lowest crime rates in the entire US for a town its size). Parts of Phoenix have very little as well.

But see...I HATE Phoenix. Could never pay me enough to live there. I LOVE Tucson. I'm not looking for nightlife, so maybe Tucson isn't the place for you if you are.

I love the outdoors. I would go hiking in the mountains, which were 5 min. from my house in Tucson, w/my kids every weekend. The weather is cooler, there is FAR less traffic and congestion. The natural desert has been preserved, which it has not in Phoenix, and why live in AZ if you don't want desert??

To me, Phoenix is a metropolitan sprawling town with no character. Just busy roads, lots of chain restaurants, lots of cookie cutter homes, and you could be just about anywhere in the U.S. (aside from the weather).

Tucson, to me, has character. You are in the desert--it's all around you--the mountains, the expanses of desert, the smaller town feel. It's not even a competition in my mind.

That said, obviously there are people who feel strongly that Phoenix is the "better" place. There is no objective "better" place. There is only what is the best fit for you. They are so different that if you love one, you probably won't love the other....so go out and check it out!!



Pam