Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Phoenix is my original hometown.
Apparently, you are another unforutunate product of Phoenix's generally low-intelligence level that you could not comprehend my original posting. I chose San Jose California to pursue my career path. I'm not a clueless snob - just realistic and practical.
Mister Moose, you give yourself too much credit. If you had any brains at all, you would realize that this person was admonishing you for having ever left PHX in the first place, saying that NoCal turned you into a snob.
The suggestion was, if I understand correctly, that you would not be such a snob if you had stayed here, and you might actually like it.
My problems with you as an individual aside...
Phoenix is one of those things that you either love or you hate. You hate it, obviously. It has its pros and its cons.
Pros:
- Not freezing cold for half of the year
- Not as much smog as LA
- Smaller than most peoples' cities of origin, yet not tiny
- Three hours away from snow in the winter, 6 or so hours away from the ocean year-round
- One of the lowest residential segregation indices in the country... of course, to someone like you, that is apparently a con... I will discuss your bigotry more later
- Diverse, and not just ethnically - there are rich people here and there are poor people, and then there is the middle class.
Cons:
- 110+ in the summers
- Very weak downtown compared with similarly sized metro areas
- Everything closes at 9 PM
- Sprawl
- Crazy drivers (not just fast! crazy, too!)
- Too many old people in some parts, too many kids in others, but nowhere with a good balance of the two
- "No culture" (a sweeping statement that's not specific enough - we have culture, just not opera houses and the like)
- In many ways, a satellite of SoCal with lots of aged midwestern imports
Feel free to add your own.
Now, there is one constant thread in your posts that really irritates me. You keep rambling about illegal aliens/undocumented migrants (I call them the latter, you call them the former) in the Valley.
So what? There are people who have come into this country illegally or who have stayed here illegally (in fact, a good portion of the people who are here illegally came here legally and then overstayed their visa). It's a fact of life. What are they doing to you? Besides, that is, making your food and cleaning the public restrooms you sh*t in. And it's not like there are no "illegals" in NoCal, you just keep them segregated in separate cities so you can pretend they don't exist.
Now, although you have not explicitly said this, given your alarmism about the ZOMG ILEGALL CAN-SURR and things I have heard from people like you, I strongly suspect that for you, the words "illegal", "hispanic", "latino", and "mexican-american" all mean the same.
Perhaps you need some education. Latinos have been in the Southwest for longer than Anglos. I'm not saying that gives people a right to cross the border unlawfully; what I'm trying to demonstrate is that there are many Latinos who are in fact American citizens. The first Spanish words were uttered in what is now Arizona long before the first English words.
Now, perhaps you don't realize this fundamental concept: children of immigrants, whether their parents are in the United States of America legally or illegally, are citizens if they were born here. Given the fact that a very large segment of the Latino population of the Valley (and indeed, of the entire United States) is comprised of second-generation Mexican-Americans and even third- and fourth-generation Mexican-Americans, many of the "illegals" you despise so much are actually just as American as are you, and became citizens the same way you did - they were born here. Make no mistake, this is not some tiny insignificant minority of the Latino population, it is in fact a very large segment.
There are also many, many immigrants who are here legally, mostly on visas, but some also who have become naturalized citizens.
As a conservative, I'm sure our troops are more important to you than anyone else in the world except Bush, so perhaps it will be meaningful to you if I say that the percentage of Latinos deployed in Iraq is far greater than the percentage of Latinos back home in the US.
Stop hatin' on la raza, cono racisto, Latins haven't never done nothin' to you 'cept your dirty work.
And it makes absolutely no logical sense that someone who is in this country illegally would want to do anything else illegal. If a citizen robs a 7/11 and gets caught, they get locked up for 15-25. If an "illegal" does the same, they can look forward to deportation. Anyone who is not here legally who has any desire to stay here is not going to commit crimes. They are going to lay low. As Los Tigres del Norte put it:
"de mi trabajo a mi casa / yo no se lo que me pasa / con que soy hombre de hogar / casi no salgo a la calle / pues tengo miedo que me hallen / y me puedan deportar"
- From my work to my house / I don't know what happened to me / that I have become a house-husband / I barely leave home / because I'm afraid that they'll find me / and be able to deport me
"de que me sirve el dinero / si estoy como prisionero / dentro de esta gran nacion / cuando me acuerdo hasta lloro / que aunque la jaula sea de oro / no deja de ser prision"
- What purpose does money serve for me / if I'm like a prisoner / in this great nation / when I remember until I cry / that even though the cage is made of gold / it won't stop being a prison
Are we really a city (and a nation) of passive aggressive a-holes unable to adjust to the stress and willing to forgo reason to just spew venom in all directions?
Yes, yes we are. Moreso on the Internet though -- if someone is saying things you disagree with on a street corner, it's a lot less likely that you (and by you I mean "people") are going to engage in a discussion with him than if he were to say the same things on the Internet. And due to the anonymity provided by the Internet, people are free to let their rage overflow and call people uncivilized names as I just did in my previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001
A city of higher buildings would create shade and wind and allow for wonderful views. But, alas, economics would never allow a massive, mostly flat valley to develop upwards.
Alas, if only this were the way things worked. But it is not. Tall buildings in the desert actually make it hotter in surrounding suburbs, while not really doing anything to change the temperature near the urban core. I don't remember the reasons for this, but it's quite easy to research. Something to do with wind and buildings. Shade, I guess, yes, during certain times of day. Lots of that. I'll bet a lot of people save a lot of money on energy costs because they live in the shadow of downtown for part of the day.
And it's not too late. Phoenix is growing vertically, slowly but surely. More tall buildings are going up in the general vicinity of downtown. Mostly residential developments. And there is no lack in vertical growth in certain other areas of the Valley -- Tempe is going up, up, up, as is Downtown Scottsdale. Not quite as high as downtown Phoenix, but 7 or 13 stories is taller than 3 or 5.
I, for one, am confident that the completion of the METRO will bring in more development along the route and give us a much stronger downtown.
Okay, thank God we atleast have one semi-conservative metro left. I'm currently living(Orange County, CA) where that conservative aspect is dying as foriegn-born, and illegal aliens take-over. The only thing stopping California from them is the high-home prices.
Everyday that goes by, I question it more and more ...Am I really living in America??
Okay, thank God we atleast have one semi-conservative metro left. I'm currently living(Orange County, CA) where that conservative aspect is dying as foriegn-born, and illegal aliens take-over. The only thing stopping California from them is the high-home prices.
Everyday that goes by, I question it more and more ...Am I really living in America??
Sí, señor. De acuerdo con mis investigaciones, el Condado Anaranjado forma parte de los EEUU. El porcentaje de hispanohablantes no tiene ningun relevancia. De hecho, al tiempo de su anexión, Nuevo México (que incluyó el estado actual de Arizona) tenía una gran mayoridad de hispanohablantes, un que mantenía hasta los 1930s en Arizona y hasta los 1970s en el estado de NM.
...yes, this is still America. The color of peoples' skin or the language they speak will not change that. 300 years ago, the people of Orange County were "red", and they spoke Chumash or Gabrieleño. Then, the people of Orange County became "brown" and they spoke Spanish. Then, they were "white" and they spoke English. And slowly but surely, they are becoming a mixture of all colors, speaking Spanglish.
Same for Phoenix, except that here people spoke O'odham and Yavapai (depending on what part of the valley you're in - Phoenix is located at the border of their ancestral territories) instead.
Judging from this thread, if all you folks who hate Phoenix and Arizona so much would just get the h**l out of here and leave our state to those of us who actually like it here, our congestion problem would be beat!
Okay, thank God we atleast have one semi-conservative metro left. I'm currently living(Orange County, CA) where that conservative aspect is dying as foriegn-born, and illegal aliens take-over. The only thing stopping California from them is the high-home prices.
Everyday that goes by, I question it more and more ...Am I really living in America??
Get out while you can. California is slowly turning into a banana republic. Soon it will be nothing more than the filthy rich along the shore line, bloated governments living off taxing the rich, and illegals doing most of the work.
On another subject, I'm glad to see Node UE noticed the irony of the original poster referring to me as another one of the uneducated when they couldn't even understand the context of my original post on this thread.
Mister Moose, you give yourself too much credit. If you had any brains at all, you would realize that this person was admonishing you for having ever left PHX in the first place, saying that NoCal turned you into a snob.
The suggestion was, if I understand correctly, that you would not be such a snob if you had stayed here, and you might actually like it.
Leaving Phoenix for the Silicon valley was not only good for my personal income; it actually opened my eyes, and made me realize that there are many other cities and regions more impressive than Phoenix - despite the mushroom growth in the valley of the shun.
Quote:
And it's not like there are no "illegals" in NoCal, you just keep them segregated in separate cities so you can pretend they don't exist.
I never stated that there aren't illegal-immigrants in northern Cali.
However, that problem is overshadowed by many amenities of the area - the high-paying technology sector, the friendliness and professionalism of many people I've had the pleasure of knowing, the ocean within an hour's drive, the mass-transit just to name a few.
One drawback to San Jose is it doesn't have the museums, the nightlife, the performing arts, or other big-city attractions; but - San Francisco is 50 miles to the north where a person can have that experience. You don't even have to drive to Frisco - you can take the light-rail to the b.a.r.t. subway, which will take you under the bay into the city!
Quote:
Now, there is one constant thread in your posts that really irritates me. You keep rambling about illegal aliens/undocumented migrants (I call them the latter, you call them the former) in the Valley.
So what? There are people who have come into this country illegally or who have stayed here illegally (in fact, a good portion of the people who are here illegally came here legally and then overstayed their visa). It's a fact of life.
Being that you apparently believe it's o.k. to break the law, how would you feel if a family member of yours was involved in a hit-and-run accident by a Mexican national - a.k.a. illegal-immigrant???!!! That's what happened about 10 years ago to my brother. Thankfully, he survived. Unfortunately, so did the illegal who caused the accident.
Illegals are welcomed by shady businesses who want to hire them for cheap labor. This may help reduce inflation of the cost of goods and services, but it also affects everybody negatively as far as keeping overall wages on the low side.
Illegals also overcrowd emergency rooms because they know they can be diagnosed and treated even without insurance. They litter the desert and contaminate the environment when they cross over.
They are also involved in a high percentage of criminal activity. On America's Most Wanted, there was a profile of an illegal who kidnapped a 9-year-old girl and brutally raped her. The father went after him, but he escaped. That's just 1 example of the many crimes they commit!
Quote:
Now, although you have not explicitly said this, given your alarmism about the ZOMG ILEGALL CAN-SURR and things I have heard from people like you, I strongly suspect that for you, the words "illegal", "hispanic", "latino", and "mexican-american" all mean the same.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like like a duck >>>>>>>> you know the rest.
Fact is - most illegals are Mexican. If you refuse to accept that factual statement, then you're the person who needs an education!
Quote:
Perhaps you need some education. Latinos have been in the Southwest for longer than Anglos. I'm not saying that gives people a right to cross the border unlawfully; what I'm trying to demonstrate is that there are many Latinos who are in fact American citizens. The first Spanish words were uttered in what is now Arizona long before the first English words.
No problem there. I welcome diveristy. But there is a difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL. One is lawful, the other is criminal. ?Comprende?
Quote:
Now, perhaps you don't realize this fundamental concept: children of immigrants, whether their parents are in the United States of America legally or illegally, are citizens if they were born here. Given the fact that a very large segment of the Latino population of the Valley (and indeed, of the entire United States) is comprised of second-generation Mexican-Americans and even third- and fourth-generation Mexican-Americans, many of the "illegals" you despise so much are actually just as American as are you, and became citizens the same way you did - they were born here. Make no mistake, this is not some tiny insignificant minority of the Latino population, it is in fact a very large segment.
Oh I'm highly aware of that concept. It's called the 14th amendment.
I'm also highly aware that it has been abused beyond its original intent. Illegals are privy to the fact that they can illegally live here, have as many children as they want, and have them decalred as legal citizens. Children who, by the way, are usually raised, fed, educated, and cared for by legal American citizens' tax money. How does that grab you?
Quote:
As a conservative, I'm sure our troops are more important to you than anyone else in the world except Bush, so perhaps it will be meaningful to you if I say that the percentage of Latinos deployed in Iraq is far greater than the percentage of Latinos back home in the US.
I don't consider myself to be a conservative, but I'm certainly not a liberal either.
Truth is, I have little interest in politics. When opportunity knocks, I answer; and when urgent family situations arise, I heed the call. Politics aside, I have values; which you apparetntly seem to lack, being that you support the amnesty of illegal-immigrants who are over here breaking the law.
Quote:
Stop hatin' on la raza, cono racisto, Latins haven't never done nothin' to you 'cept your dirty work.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I don't hate Latinos; but I dislike ignorant people who play the race-card - like yourself.
There are overwhelmingly many people with the same feelings. Meaning, there is more than one person that feels your statistical information and your credibility is flawed. Throw up the white flag and surrender.
Oh I expect many people in Phoenix to dispute the violent crime rate and murder rate per 100,000 people. I expect many to dispute the rating from Morgan Quinto that Arizona is the 4th most dangerous state in the country and that Phoenix metro area is in the top-25 most dangerous, which is in fact number 3 of metropolitan areas of 3 million people or more. Nobody likes to think they live in a dangerous city of course. Phoenix is though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatdrinks
Is this directed at me? What am I surrendering? I haven't posted any stats - I've simply argued that the person posting as RobinHolland has skewed stats, along with some kind of weird obsession with badmouthing a state that he/she doesn't even live in.
Stats are accurate I'm sorry to say. I understand your defensiveness though, I truly do. The violent crime and murder numbers that I gave per 100,000 in the Phoenix metro area is accurate, and the only people that seem to bag Morgan Quinto are those that live in a poorly rated city. I have never heard one complaint from anybody that is from a city that is rated highly.
Stats are accurate I'm sorry to say. I understand your defensiveness though, I truly do. The violent crime and murder numbers that I gave per 100,000 in the Phoenix metro area is accurate, and the only people that seem to bag Morgan Quinto are those that live in a poorly rated city. I have never heard one complaint from anybody that is from a city that is rated highly.
No need to be sorry And I'm not being defensive at all I'm actually more curious as to why you spend so much of your time inside, on a computer, in the forum of a city that you hate, badmouthing it. Seems very odd to me, since you've professed to living in one of those MQ Top Cities, which would lead me to believe that there must be many more interesting and fun ways to spend your time...maybe going for a stroll in your crime free neighborhood; catching an opera or musical at one of your many cultural and crime free outlets; going to dinner at one of your many top rated, crime free ethnic food restaurants; spending time with the many, many friends you've made b/c people are so friendly and happy living in such a wonderful, crime free, friendly, culturally rich city....
What good is it living in a city as great as yours if you spend so much time inside, in front of a computer???
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
