I thought Phoenix would be more progressive after all these years! (real estate, mortgage)

[moose168]

I'm a new member to the board, but not new to the valley. I was born in Phoenix, grew up here. I remember when cotton fields dominated the landscape, when I-17 was completed - it was simply called Black Canyon Highway back then. Wallace and Ladmo, cruising on Central, Legend City - the good old days.
I moved to San Jose California in the mid-'80s to pursue my career path. I recently moved back to the valley to care for my mother who is unable to care for herself. Things have sure changed, sorry to say for the worst.
Phoenix has gone from being a small friendly city to an oversized, unfriendly, spread-out suburb of nothing. I can overlook the fact that traffic congestion is bad>>>>>>>>> heck, I lived in Cali for 20 years. But the way people drive here is astounding. If you're not going 25 miles over the speed limit, you're almost run off the road by ruthless jerks with a death wish. At least they're putting in speed-detection cameras, so that's a good step.
But for a metropolitan area that is now as big as the Philadelphias, the Bostons, the San Franciscos, and the Seattles, this place sure behaves like a 3rd-class town. The bay area certainly had its share of problems, but at least they had culture and things to do! Want a Broadway show in Phoenix? Forget it. The attendance at the symphony orchestra concerts is meek. An active nightlife? Ha! It seems the culture here is yahoos in their lifted trucks, who can out-race each other on freeways, meth labs, illegals, car thefts. Higher education is located out of state.
Then to top it off, the so-called jobs here - what a laugh. Motorola used to be the city's major employer. Now it's Wal-Mart, part-time construction, and telemarketing call centers. Salaries that amount to slightly above min-wage levels>>>>>>>> but, you get what you pay for. That's why we have so many uneducated, uncultured clods living here. They seem to be attracted to the valley for low-cost housing and low-paying jobs.
Judging by the mentality here, I'll probably get many knee-jerk responses, telling me to move away, or go back where I came from if I don't like it here. Don't worry - that's exactly what I plan on doing as soon as I can get things settled with my mother's condition. I can move away, but it won't change the fact that my hometown has sold itself short to cheap labor, shoddy cookie-cutter housing, unchecked sprawl, and no sense of planning whatsoever. Just because Phoenix has mushroom growth doesn't mean progress for the better. Heck, the valley was more progressive in the '60s when we were a small city.

[MotleyCrew]

There is that old saying that you can't go home again. I felt the same way about Ontario after living up north for 15 years. It looked like L.A to me. The orange groves were all gone and high rise buildings in their place.

I lived up in N. Ca for 15 years and can't consider San Francisco a cultural gem. We went to the last AIA convention In S.F we will ever attend several years ago. We stepped over human waste and even had the displeasure of watching someone relieve himself between two BMW's. I think S.F is an arm pit, third world cesspool now. You could go to the opera daily and I will take the madness of Phoenix. That is what happens to a city when you make pets out of the homeless.
Suffice it to say, home is where the heart is and we like AZ very much.

[irwin]

When people move out here for weather, sun, and the fact they can get a big, new McMansion for relatively cheap...you are not going to get a progressive culture. You are also not going to get neighborhoods, decent entertainment, or any real community feeling. People move here to be left alone and they could care less about their community. That's why they drive so fast from place to place and seem to dismiss environmental impacts of their lifestyle so quickly. Welcome to "progress" brought to you by your friendly development and auto industry.

I have some advice, move with your mother out of here. I have been here almost two years and am at wits end. But, thankfully, in about a month and a half I am going to be leaving this sprawling, soulless nightmare of a place to never set foot here again. Off to Boston for a real job and real city.

[ejk]

You are not kidding on the driving; it is really bad. People are INSANE. And I don't think anybody here knows how to use a 4 way stop.

I moved here only recently but was a frequent visitor for many years. At the time I started planning my move, the area was much less congested, much more "small town" and it did seem to change overnight. But I still think the people are MUCH friendlier here than where I am from. When I go back to visit I am always shocked at how rude the people seem there. Here, you go to the store, people stop and chat or at least smile at you. Our out of town guests are always pleasantly shocked by the friendliness here.

As far as the culture goes, I used to love the Chicago museums and shows. I do miss that. But it was very cost prohibitive. The average person can't afford to go all the time. To be honest I'd rather spend the day hiking, anyway. To each his own.

I admit that low-cost housing was a bonus for us. Our house is twice the size, decades newer, and our mortgage payment stayed pretty much the same. Chicago long ago used up its supply of open land. Even the crappy areas are expensive. Is our house built as well as our home back East? No, but so far we haven't had a single ice storm or tornado warning to worry about. As long as we can avoid being hit by lightning during the monsoon I feel OK.

I think some of the planning here has been done poorly, yes, but it depends where you are looking. Other areas have been planned out very well. If someone was really thinking there would have been a few sets of tracks laid out alongside all these building permits. Commuters need another option besides the crowded roads.

I agree that the area has become congested. What can I say? I'm part of the problem so it makes no sense for me to complain. I love it here.

[moose168]

When people move out here for weather, sun, and the fact they can get a big, new McMansion for relatively cheap...you are not going to get a progressive culture.

Excellent point.
That's another thing about Phoenix I can't figure out. Why do so many people move out here for the seemingly endless sunny days? I admit that I like warm weather. Sometimes the cloudy and drizzly mornings and the rainy winters become monotonous in the bay area. But I'm not here for the climate like the majority are - I'm here for more important reasons.
As far as the climate - when it reaches the upper 90s in March and so many people call it "lovely", that's when I draw the line.
Look, this dry heat is not healthy. Skin cancer is among the worst in the nation - melanoma can kill you. Asthma and other breathing problems from all the pollution and dust increases after living here a while.

have some advice, move with your mother out of here.

My mother is 83 years old - she has lived in the valley for more than 50 years, and would have a hard time adapting to a new environment. I finally convinced her to move with me to the bay area when we get her house sold, but she's still reluctant.
Don't worry - I'll move out of this hellhole valley sooner or later - hopefully sooner. My career is software design, but I can't find anything in the valley that pays worth a squat - $40grand a year max. In the bay area and silicon valley, I grossed more than twice that amount!
Sorry to sound so negative, but I used to really like Phoenix when I was younger. Now that I'm older and more picky, I honestly don't see what the attraction is to move here. It's a huge mega-suburb of nothing. There's virtually no high-paying jobs, unless you are in real estate, a developer, a hooker, or run a meth lab. There's no real nightlife, little interest in the arts or classical music. Try to drive the speed limit on a freeway - forget it! You'll get killed by some maniac if you're not driving like Mario Andretti!
Another thing - it seems as if we can't find anybody professional here to do home improvements. Many contractors are shady, they hire low-paid day laborers who don't give a care about the quality of the work they do. Such a haven for the uneducated and the unintelligent!

[AZ_singlemother]

I can't brag about California when most of the individuals who jacked up the housing prices then take off back home are Californians. Not to mention the State of California cannot control their money issues and make it affordable for average people to live. So many materialistic snobs live in Southern Cali and nothing but liberals running the Northern end. They all are fake.

I blame the State of Arizona for letting this city go down to waste. I agree, wish Arizona was the same back then today. We need to put some California controls. The state needs to clean up it's act and support the localites - stop catering so much to the short timers and care.

I'm tired of living here and would prefer Texas over California for an escape.

[dano]

Based on the initial poster's comments, he/she would have been better off staying in their home town. It appears No Cal has turned them into a clueless snob. Most of the points are sophmoric and do not warrant a response.

[moose168]

Originally Posted by AZ_singlemother

I can't brag about California when most of the individuals who jacked up the housing prices then take off back home are Californians. Not to mention the State of California cannot control their money issues and make it affordable for average people to live.

The majority of California's housing is still much more expensive than Arizona's. Prices here are still dirt-cheap compared to both coasts. Don't blame the recent spike all on Californians. That was mostly the real-estate market, fueled by greedy developers building as many ticky-tack subdivisions in a short time so they could reap a quick profit.
In my mother's case, the increase in home prices will only benefit her if she can sell her home for what she wants. I'm helping her get things settled so she can move with me back to Cali. She's not too thrilled about leaving the valley - she feels like she's stuck here; but I want out of the valley asap.

So many materialistic snobs live in Southern Cali and nothing but liberals running the Northern end. They all are fake.

I agree, but in most of the bay area, including silicon valley, there are many good-natured, hard-working professionals who care about their career, their communities, their families, and not so wrapped-up in politics.
Talk about liberal - what about Arizona and all the illegal-immigrants being allowed here?
Anyway, I don't really care about politics. I chose the bay area for the career opportunities. Phoenix can't hold a candle to the wages you can make in northern Cali. Besides that, the intelligence-factor up there is multiplied fivefold compared to this Wal-Mart and call center haven. Less than 25% of the Phoenix area is populated with college graduates. This place is Loserville!

[moose168]

Originally Posted by dano

Based on the initial poster's comments, he/she would have been better off staying in their home town. It appears No Cal has turned them into a clueless snob. Most of the points are sophmoric and do not warrant a response.

Phoenix is my original hometown.
Apparently, you are another unforutunate product of Phoenix's generally low-intelligence level that you could not comprehend my original posting. I chose San Jose California to pursue my career path. I'm not a clueless snob - just realistic and practical.
I can (and will) move away, but that's not going to change the fact that my hometown of Phoenix has allowed itself to be sold short to cheap labor, illegals, unchecked growth, speed demons, and uneducated transients dominating the place. I'd love to be able to brag to my friends about the city I grew up in - but there is very little to like about Phoenix anymore.
Besides, when I was young, the temperatures were cooler, especially at night. The concrete desert that has been poured on top of the real desert has created its own urban heat island>>>>>>>>>>>> 99 degrees in March and several years of subnormal rainfall is not "lovely weather"!

[Cj81]

why aint you got nothin nice to say about feenix. I's been here a long time and people here aint uneducated, hell, I is a graduate of the third grade.

I say if you don't like Phoenix, then just get on with your life. Why do you feel the need to post all the negative comments? Do you want attention? I guess you don't have any friends to talk to about this matter! And I'm sure your mother knows better than to listen to your crying. Whatever, ***** all you want, I actually find it entertaining. So how much longer do we have the pleasure of you in our city? Hopefully at least through the summer, we would hate for you to miss that.